Matt, Desire, much to do with desire. Faith ,hope, belief, revolve around it.
what is this desire? -Ron ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt Kundert <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:24:59 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Boromir's Journey Hey Steve, Marsha, Steve, you asked what the place for faith is in the kind of redescriptions of stuff we get from Pirsig, or the pragmatists generally, the place of faith in secular philosophies, roughly, and Marsha asked, "Faith in what?" And you scratched your head and said, "Yeah--the object half is what I want to get rid of." Read this paragraph again, but this time with "faith" excised and a different word stuck in-- Steve said: I don't think he had any different assessment of the probability of success for the Fellowship's task as any other members of the Fellowship, yet he was in great despair, and the others were not--at least not to the degree that Boromir was. I think the others had [hope] and that Boromir's lack of [hope] destroyed him and that his lack of [hope] was not a lack of belief. The difference was not the presence of absence of an intellectual structure but an attitude toward the world or trust in the process of life. Matt: It seems to me you're talking about hope, Mr. My-Blog-Is-Called-Atheistic-Hope.blogspot.com. Hope is just that--it's an outlook, not a belief-structure. Rorty liked to summarize the difference between James and Nietzsche that way--the upshot of their philosophies was more or less the same, but their outlooks were completely different and shaped everything they did. Whereas you'd likely say "faith _in_ X," thus creating a static object to believe in the eternality of, the hope locution is more like "hope _for_ X," which implies a future situation one wants to more towards. Neither Frodo nor Gandalf had faith that Frodo _would_ succeed, but they both hoped that he _could_. There is no future perfect verb here, but the power verb--I _can_, I am _able_, within my _ability_, my power. Frodo and Gandalf _hoped_ that Frodo was able, but all they could do was try. Hope is a call to action. Faith seems something more passive. Faith seems to conceive an ideal, but hope resonates with the recognition of the disparity between the real and ideal, and the desire to reconcile the two. Matt _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
