Steve said: You compare Eastern Enlightenment in Buddhism or Hinduism with Western Enlightenment as 18th century european cultural phenomenon.I understand what you are saying about pragmatists not being able to see Enlightenment as an epistemological achievement. A good point. You then say that what is left then is only bliss. Perhaps both forms of Enlightenment could also be understood in negative terms as overcoming anxiety.
Matt: Yeah, that's true. However, that just punches up what they have in common with what we might traditionally call the "religion impulse," and why Nietzsche derided "metaphysical comfort" and Heidegger called Platonism "onto-theology." Pirsig makes the same connection at the beginning of ZMM: "[Phaedrus'] kind of rationality has been used since antiquity to remove oneself from the tedium and depression of one's immediate surroundings." (Ch. 6, 72-3) The most interesting thing I learned this past year was that the primary motivation of Greek materialism was cessation of mental suffering--materialism was _never_ taken seriously _by the propounders_ as a "metaphysical" thesis qua metaphysical thesis, which is why it usually lost in the face of even more comforting philosophies like neo-Platonism. It wasn't until technology arose that showed how there was a _different_ kind of payoff for this thesis, the improvement of man's estate (as Bacon put it), that materialism began to be taken seriously. At least, so says Hans Blumenburg. The overcoming of anxiety is a _huge_, neverending motivation for our behavior. And I think a lot of philosophy, and other spiritual activities, can be usefully seen under that rubric. Ron: A damn fine conclusion Matt, I've been giving this some thought in a similar light, that the creators of axioms of thought took them as provisional, an assumed point of beginning. Establishing reference points in a realm of flux. Creating (as you say, ) "castles in the ether" Kingdoms of heaven? As you say, the mythos grew and for reasons of comfort. Comfort, and eventually of control. Popes as powerful as kings. Platos glorification of the abstract, the best patterns, those of virtue and wisdom and their benefits in leading a happier life, were taken quite literally when re-introduced into Roman Christian culture. Greek philosophy was thought of as Paganistic, Christians murdering philosophers (Hypatia of alexandria) I believe the angle of the neo-Platonists was to keep these ideals alive within the new religion of empirial Rome. Plontious (I believe) never claimed to be christian. Sometimes Matt, I get the feeling Jesus was invented, at least the mythos of Jesus, the Platonic ideal of the perfect form steeped in the cult of Dionysus. Comfort is fine, and usefull but when mixed with the conflagation of mythos as literal,....trouble. Matt: What you might make the move to from there is that the European Englightenment philosophers' way of alleviating anxiety in long run _merely exacerbates_ the situation, rather than proving to be a good long-term strategy. Have you run across Richard Bernstein's Beyond Objectivism and Relativism, yet? That's the book where he coins "Cartesian Anxiety" (the use of which I have strown about my blog and essays, like "Confessions"). Matt > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:41:23 -0400 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MD] Boromir's Journey > > Hi Matt, > > I just read your post "What is Enlightenment?" > > http://pirsigaffliction.blogspot.com/2006/03/what-is-enlightenment.html > > You compare Eastern Enlightenment in Buddhism or Hinduism with Western > Enlightenment as 18th century european cultural phenomenon.I > understand what you are saying about pragmatists not being able to see > Enlightenment as an epistemological achievement. A good point. You > then say that what is left then is only bliss. Perhaps both forms of > Enlightenment could also be understood in negative terms as overcoming > anxiety. > > What do you think? > > Best, > Steve > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
