Platt to Andre: I doubt if Tiger Woods' wife is feeling much "harmonious balance" right now.
Andre: I honestly don't know what Tiger Woods has been up to lately Platt. I only know he is a great golfer. Platt: Don't you mean "IF they survived through their own means?" What's missing is a description of the conditions the laborers suffered before they were "dispossessed" (whatever that means).. Andre: Times were tough in them days Platt, but apart from inclement weather conditions they were in control of their own lives and livelyhoods.In other words, they had freedom and self-determination. They were disposessed because the land they had lived on for generations (back to feudal days) was sold from underneath them by their 'lords', (property owners aided by government legislation), to 'developers' (railroad construction, factory building, changes into what people were allowed to grow etc, etc...for profit). In other words, from one day to the next people had no livelyhood. Arlo spoke of this very recently as well. Platt: A different view of current working conditions in China is found here: Andre: China is a big place Platt, as you know, and are, at this 'free-market stuff' for nearly 20 years. Still very recent and new for them. I'd call the 'execution' of someone for 'taking bribes and failing to supervise production properly' pretty severe. Thing is that in such a developing market economy one cannot rely on the market itself to regulate these things. That's what 'higher' bodies are for, at government level. A social level mechanism to detect, control and, if possible destroy, biological level instances of 'law of the jungle'' practices motivated by selfish greed. The cultural history of China is so enmeshed with the biological/social that they really are very new at this....and of course at govt. level not everyone is clean. They all have their networkings. But what's new? The production of money, which didn't exist, in the financial system and has led to the crisis the world is in, has led to how many 'apologies' from bankers? Perhaps half a dozen? None from Dutch bankers. How many in the US? All I hear is that they are reaping their bonus millions again as they have done for years and years and years. I happen to know that China has executed people who were skimming too many yen into their own accounts. (thank you for the link though!) Platt: One ad hominem attack deserves another. Andre: Where/when did I attack you ad hominemly? Platt: Likewise I find it difficult to reconcile your socialist ideology with the MOQ since nothing is more static than central government control of human behavior, no matter what the good intentions. Andre: If you interpret my concern for inorganic/organic/social/intellectual PoV's, by e.g. designating these as, things, products, commodities, consumers,patients,economic units,citizens,employes,employers, customers,clients,etc,etc, to name but a few, and thereby losing sight of the 'human being as an expression of morality' aspect...as pertaining to a 'socialist ideology' I plead guilty but I also dislike 'ists' and 'isms'. As for government intervention to control some forms of human behaviour, no matter what the good intentions ( whether these are the govt's good intention or the individual's good intention),...through the courts, judiciary,democracy, trial by jury etc etc, that is a morally acceptable advance don't you think? Kind regards Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
