Hey Marsha I recall that Mr. Pirsig's answer here tied together many loose ends for me at the time. It is a simple yet elegant explanation. Glad you liked it.
Dan On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 4:44 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > HI Dan, > > This RMP reply sounds like a 'yes, no and all of the above' type of > answer, one I cannot help but admire. What do you think? > > > Marsha > > > > On Dec 28, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Dan Glover wrote: > >> Hello everyone >> >> On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 2:35 PM, John Carl <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Good morning Marsha, >>> >>> John earlier: >>> >>>> Experience can't be what you describe, either unpatterned or without >>>>> staticity. The very defining of experience requires a static pattern in >>>>> order to be experienced. The idea of "before" is itself a static pattern >>>> of >>>>> existence relative to time and obviates the pure nullity you postulate, >>>> imo. >>>> >>>> Marsha: >>>> I did not define unpatterned experience because such an experience cannot >>>> be bound by words, and I certainly did not use the word 'before'. >>> >>> >>> >>> Well you don't have to use the word if you imply it, and otherwise it seems >>> sorta nonsensical, so I do some construing there. >>> >>> This could be quite a challenge, dialectically speaking, you say something >>> that doesn't make sense to me, and I say to you , that doesn't make sense to >>> me and then you reply it's not supposed to make sense because its impossible >>> to make sense. >>> >>> To which I reply, "oh. Ok." >>> >>> >>> But "unpatterened experience" is far worse because its a >>>>> philosophical self-contradiction. >>>>> >>>>> A metaphysics no-no. >>>> >>>> Marsha: >>>> Is it a philosophical self-contradiction in the same way as seeing orange >>>> or blue? If not, than how is it a philosophical self-contradiction? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> It's a contradiction because experience is a patterning. Thus you can't >>> have "unpatterned patterning" in a philosophically logical way. Not unless >>> you want to do some explaining of yourself young lady! >>> >>> >>> >>>>> But if you think the words you use are false, then I have to wonder why >>>> you >>>>> use them? >>>> >>>> Marsha: >>>> Words are static patterns of value. Value has me. >>>> >>>> >>> Ah, well that clears it up nicely. >> >> Hi Marsha and John >> >> During work on the LC project, I had the opportunity to ask Robert >> Pirsig about what you seem to be discussing here... >> >> "DG: >> ...how experience can >> be synonymous with Dynamic Quality? Isn’t experience that which we define?" >> >> "RMP: >> Dynamic Quality is defined constantly by everyone. >> Consciousness can be described is a process of defining Dynamic >> Quality. But once the definitions emerge, they are static patterns and >> no longer apply to Dynamic Quality. So one can say correctly that >> Dynamic Quality is both infinitely definable and undefinable because >> definition never exhausts it." (LILA'S CHILD) >> >> Does that help? >> >> Dan >> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> Isn't the idea of words that we use them for truth? >>>> >>>> Marsha: >>>> Value creates 'we'. >>>> >>>> >>> Only if it's in the mood. >>> >>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I mean, we know when we shoot for the moon we'll miss, but at least it >>>>> provides a big fat aim point. >>>> >>>> >>>> Marsha: >>>> Experience is experience is experience. >>>> >>>> >>> Succinctly, redundantly tautological. >>> >>> Catchy, but nonsensical. >>> >>> I can hum the tune, but I doubt anybody'd dance to it. Try taking some >>> lessons from Ron. >>> >>> John, tapping his toes. >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars... > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
