Dan, It is very elegant, and I thank you for bringing it to my attention.
Marsha On Dec 29, 2009, at 6:11 AM, Dan Glover wrote: > Hey Marsha > > I recall that Mr. Pirsig's answer here tied together many loose ends > for me at the time. It is a simple yet elegant explanation. Glad you > liked it. > > Dan > > On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 4:44 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> HI Dan, >> >> This RMP reply sounds like a 'yes, no and all of the above' type of >> answer, one I cannot help but admire. What do you think? >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> On Dec 28, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Dan Glover wrote: >> >>> Hello everyone >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 2:35 PM, John Carl <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Good morning Marsha, >>>> >>>> John earlier: >>>> >>>>> Experience can't be what you describe, either unpatterned or without >>>>>> staticity. The very defining of experience requires a static pattern in >>>>>> order to be experienced. The idea of "before" is itself a static pattern >>>>> of >>>>>> existence relative to time and obviates the pure nullity you postulate, >>>>> imo. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha: >>>>> I did not define unpatterned experience because such an experience cannot >>>>> be bound by words, and I certainly did not use the word 'before'. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Well you don't have to use the word if you imply it, and otherwise it seems >>>> sorta nonsensical, so I do some construing there. >>>> >>>> This could be quite a challenge, dialectically speaking, you say something >>>> that doesn't make sense to me, and I say to you , that doesn't make sense >>>> to >>>> me and then you reply it's not supposed to make sense because its >>>> impossible >>>> to make sense. >>>> >>>> To which I reply, "oh. Ok." >>>> >>>> >>>> But "unpatterened experience" is far worse because its a >>>>>> philosophical self-contradiction. >>>>>> >>>>>> A metaphysics no-no. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha: >>>>> Is it a philosophical self-contradiction in the same way as seeing orange >>>>> or blue? If not, than how is it a philosophical self-contradiction? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> It's a contradiction because experience is a patterning. Thus you can't >>>> have "unpatterned patterning" in a philosophically logical way. Not unless >>>> you want to do some explaining of yourself young lady! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> But if you think the words you use are false, then I have to wonder why >>>>> you >>>>>> use them? >>>>> >>>>> Marsha: >>>>> Words are static patterns of value. Value has me. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Ah, well that clears it up nicely. >>> >>> Hi Marsha and John >>> >>> During work on the LC project, I had the opportunity to ask Robert >>> Pirsig about what you seem to be discussing here... >>> >>> "DG: >>> ...how experience can >>> be synonymous with Dynamic Quality? Isn’t experience that which we define?" >>> >>> "RMP: >>> Dynamic Quality is defined constantly by everyone. >>> Consciousness can be described is a process of defining Dynamic >>> Quality. But once the definitions emerge, they are static patterns and >>> no longer apply to Dynamic Quality. So one can say correctly that >>> Dynamic Quality is both infinitely definable and undefinable because >>> definition never exhausts it." (LILA'S CHILD) >>> >>> Does that help? >>> >>> Dan >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Isn't the idea of words that we use them for truth? >>>>> >>>>> Marsha: >>>>> Value creates 'we'. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Only if it's in the mood. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I mean, we know when we shoot for the moon we'll miss, but at least it >>>>>> provides a big fat aim point. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Marsha: >>>>> Experience is experience is experience. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Succinctly, redundantly tautological. >>>> >>>> Catchy, but nonsensical. >>>> >>>> I can hum the tune, but I doubt anybody'd dance to it. Try taking some >>>> lessons from Ron. >>>> >>>> John, tapping his toes. >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________________________________ >> >> Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ _______________________________________________________________________ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars... Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
