Hello everyone On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 2:35 PM, John Carl <[email protected]> wrote: > Good morning Marsha, > > John earlier: > >> Experience can't be what you describe, either unpatterned or without >> > staticity. The very defining of experience requires a static pattern in >> > order to be experienced. The idea of "before" is itself a static pattern >> of >> > existence relative to time and obviates the pure nullity you postulate, >> imo. >> >> Marsha: >> I did not define unpatterned experience because such an experience cannot >> be bound by words, and I certainly did not use the word 'before'. > > > > Well you don't have to use the word if you imply it, and otherwise it seems > sorta nonsensical, so I do some construing there. > > This could be quite a challenge, dialectically speaking, you say something > that doesn't make sense to me, and I say to you , that doesn't make sense to > me and then you reply it's not supposed to make sense because its impossible > to make sense. > > To which I reply, "oh. Ok." > > > But "unpatterened experience" is far worse because its a >> > philosophical self-contradiction. >> > >> > A metaphysics no-no. >> >> Marsha: >> Is it a philosophical self-contradiction in the same way as seeing orange >> or blue? If not, than how is it a philosophical self-contradiction? >> >> >> > It's a contradiction because experience is a patterning. Thus you can't > have "unpatterned patterning" in a philosophically logical way. Not unless > you want to do some explaining of yourself young lady! > > > >> > But if you think the words you use are false, then I have to wonder why >> you >> > use them? >> >> Marsha: >> Words are static patterns of value. Value has me. >> >> > Ah, well that clears it up nicely.
Hi Marsha and John During work on the LC project, I had the opportunity to ask Robert Pirsig about what you seem to be discussing here... "DG: ...how experience can be synonymous with Dynamic Quality? Isn’t experience that which we define?" "RMP: Dynamic Quality is defined constantly by everyone. Consciousness can be described is a process of defining Dynamic Quality. But once the definitions emerge, they are static patterns and no longer apply to Dynamic Quality. So one can say correctly that Dynamic Quality is both infinitely definable and undefinable because definition never exhausts it." (LILA'S CHILD) Does that help? Dan > > > >> > Isn't the idea of words that we use them for truth? >> >> Marsha: >> Value creates 'we'. >> >> > Only if it's in the mood. > > >> >> > >> > I mean, we know when we shoot for the moon we'll miss, but at least it >> > provides a big fat aim point. >> >> >> Marsha: >> Experience is experience is experience. >> >> > Succinctly, redundantly tautological. > > Catchy, but nonsensical. > > I can hum the tune, but I doubt anybody'd dance to it. Try taking some > lessons from Ron. > > John, tapping his toes. > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
