Ian to Bo, Andre: Two apples, one pear and one gooseberry do not make four, UNTIL you symbolize (objectify) the discrete objects in the conceptualized statement. Then the logical symbology makes sense. Until then 2 + 2 = 4 IS (literally) meaningless. It IS a SOMist intellectual pattern.
If you are NOT dealing with objects other "logics" may apply. Bodvar's response: Well, the (social level) people surely knew that if they counted apples they made an an apple symbol. But THAT is not to objectify the phenomenon that 2+2 equals 4. I don't think there is a theorem made on that? Andre: I don't think that Ian means this Bodvar. The 'development' seems to be the change from 'tangeable' items (such as apples and pears) to the abstract symbolisation of it as a 'unit' with 'meaning'. I am hopeless at mathematics, let alone logic but what sprang to mind reading Ian's post was the change, as a possible related 'intellectualisation' from (for example) the barter- to the rudimentary 'monetary' system, which clearly is an abstract representation of value (as an adjective) as opposed to the 'real' item. This appears to me quite a jump. Correct me if I am misinterpreting Ian. Also, logic appears to be a method of establishing 'formal', 'true' relationships. Following the 'logical' path leads to 'truth' statements. I thought that the Poincarre (in ZMM) examples (and the platypi in LILA) argued that foundations of this 'logical' method are, firstly not necessarily true and, secondly, that results of the application of this method, by implication, are also not necessarily true i.e. they are conventions and have led to many paradoxes/contradictions. Again, not being a mathematician but having seen parts of equations alledgedly representing relationships at the inorganic level I get the notion that a more contortionist representation is almost imposssible let alone comprehensible. As you mentioned before Bodvar: a MoQ without logic is nonsense but I would suggest that the assumptions upon which (S/O) logic is based need to be seriously questioned/ amended/enlarged...and I think that Mr.Pirsig did just this in LILA. Imho. Andre. Ps: Bodvar: I am still teaching but not students...I am teaching teachers. This makes me a Teaching Advisor or a Trainer of Trainers trying to up-end the dominant teaching methodology and, by implication, the Chinese education system. Fun and frustrating because their cultural immune system is about 2 meters thick...if not more. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
