Hi Bo, Marsha and all, I do not know who Paul Turner is, and I do not know why Pirsig wrote to him, nor when. Perhaps you can point me to these letters? Based on the snippets you quote, though, I am disturbed. He appears to be watering down the original MoQ. I hate to see it.
I started rereading Lila for the first time in 10 years just the other night. I am on Page 37 of the Bantam paperback. Yes, I am a slow reader, and also, my job prevents me from having much free time to do anything. Someday, someone will invent software that is smart enough to fix itself. At which time I will no longer have a job. There will be a day when this happens to most of us. It has already happened to many. Cloud Computing is bad news for those of us in the computer field. Anyway, so far in the book, everything is an object lesson in the (not yet revealed) definition of the Social level. A good place to start. Early on, Pirsig mentions that he considered naming the MoQ the "Metaphysics of Value". I kind of wish he had stuck with that, at least as far as it relates to the levels. IMHO, the difference between the levels lie not in their mechanical differences, but in what they _value_. Why is it so hard for many to see that the Intellectual level has _nothing_ to do with IQ, thinking, or thinking about thinking? That set of patterns has been there to one degree or another from the very start. To argue with me about this requires you to convince me that the people who wrote the old testament were of a different species. There is plenty of "intellect" in the Biological level. There is plenty of "intellect" in computer systems today too. Are computers operating on the Intellectual level? As I see it the S/O split has existed from time immemorial. My dog understands that she is different from the dog food she is eating, and me - who scratches her behind her ears. No, she does not recognize herself in a mirror, but you gotta remember that dogs "see" the world mainly in terms of scent. They only see in black, white, and red (handy to see blood if you are a carnivore, I think). When she looks at herself in the mirror, there are no smells coming back to her. Same if I show her a picture of a dog. In her world these things have no value, because they do not smell like the thing they represent. So much of science is homo-centric. The mirror test somebody mentioned is a prime example. IMO, this is pseudo-science, ripe for starting a religion around, as all pseudo-science is. The S/O split did not start with Aristotle. He was an individual with a name, among a group of other individuals with names. Any situation where naming is involved indicates that the S/O split is long entrenched. Wouldn't you agree? The S/O split began in the Biological level, serves an essential purpose, and is a very necessary pattern of value if you want to get through the day. It works. If I am one with the Universe (i.e., the Universe is me and I am it), why not try to position my car in the exact same location in space and time as your car? I believe this is otherwise known as a car wreck. There has been an ongoing low-level disagreement between you and Marsha about her "Wooly headed" meanderings into Buddhism. I agree, though likely not for the same reasons you do. IMHO, these "moon meanderings" are nice, but are not useful to me. I cannot use any of Marsha's statements to assist me with solving a computer problem, getting my son to do his homework, or cooking dinner. Mary's definition of the Intellectual Level based on Lila: It is the pattern of values which hold seeking the truth above all preconceived notions and strongly held beliefs. It is the pattern of value that takes the personal ego out of the equation. The Intellectual level values finding the truth - even if it turns out that you are wrong. Best wishes, Mary - The most important thing you will ever make is a realization. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
