Mary to Andre: The Intellectual level is the one that, for the first time, has questioned the supremacy of the S/O split.
Andre: Hi Mary, I tend to see this differently Mary. The intellectual level is dominated by the S/O distinction. Following Pirsig, our scientific understanding of reality was born with Aristotle. As Anthony McWatt suggests in his MoQ Textbook, p53, the ancient Greeks used a form of SOM, which was in the context of subject/ predicate thinking. This division ( and here is where I ask for critical comments from anyone) was further developed and employed by Descartes resulting in the Mind/Matter distinction. (I am not entirely sure how these have become mixed, if at all, and invite anyone else to contribute comments. What, exactly is the difference, if any, between a 'predicate' and an 'object'?). The common sense designation for ‘scientific understanding’ ( I suppose) is ‘objective understanding’ as separate from ‘subjective understanding’. The former being the ‘true’ way of understanding reality , the latter being one’s subjective opinions about reality ‘out there’. Thus it follows that, with Aristotle, the intellectual level emerged. The level which is separate from the social in the sense that the social harbours ( subjective) opinions about reality as opposed to objective truth statements about reality. In this sense, the intellectual level has not questioned the supremacy of the S/O distinction. The questioning of the legitimacy of knowledge about reality based on the S/O distinction occurred with Pirsig and the MoQ. I seem to remember that Pirsig says somewhere that, when writing LILA, he was 'inspired' by DQ. He didn't write it, DQ did. Mary: It has noticed it and found it lacking as a basis for explaining everything. The other 3 levels use the S/O split for their purposes. It works.They do not think about it at all, and if they do, it is a total given. Andre: Sorry, but I have no idea what you are talking about. Mary: The Intellectual is the only level that is capable of valuing asking questions about what we have always assumed. Andre: SOM, as Intellect was/ is capable of evaluating its own questions and answers. It has done so continuously for centuries and has made the necessary adjustments. However, this appears to be a circular perpetuum et mobile because it keeps on throwing up paradoxes and contradictions. Reason being that it has not asked questions about the assumptions upon which it is based, namely maintaining the S/O distinction as the basis of reality. Pirsig has discovered and questioned these assumptions and argued that they are wrong. The Mind/Matter distinction is not absolute... and of course following ZMM posited Quality/Morality as Reality. Thus the MoQ allows us to ask high quality questions and receive high quality answers. In this way it 'dominates' S/O thinking. Mary: I am not saying that the MoQ is a product of the Intellectual Level. Andre: Bodvar argues very strongly that, following the same procedure as Pirsig, with the emergence of the levels, one from the other, it is 'logical' that the MoQ ‘emerged’ from SOM, from subject/object thinking. Therefore the MoQ cannot be ‘intellectual’, it is another level ‘above’ S/O intellect. By keeping it ‘below’ itself, 2 things happen: one; intellect is a static PoV and remains so (behind lock and key) and the MoQ is free to reign and exert all its Quality potential. Mary: Keep warm, Andre: I am doing my best. It’s no use fighting it however, so a little meditative practice of acceptance already lifts the sensation of cold. Must say though that I would gladly sit on a hot stove at the moment! Kind regards Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
