Hi David, Yes, the Brian Wynne episode was especially enlightening, but they were all excellent. This series was eye-opening and alarming, but that these questions and investigations are being considered helped me with a little optimism. I feel very fortunate that I exposed to these programs, and I worry for all that have missed them.
http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/features/science/index.html#episode10 Marsha On Jan 30, 2010, at 3:42 PM, David Thomas wrote: > All, > > Continuing on the trail of the intellect through the social world: > > At this point this whole thread turns in my mind into a comic/tragic > reality/farce. RMP spends two books tracing the history of the "Church of > Reason" criticizing the ongoing consequences of using subject and object as > the fundamental underlying premise Western philosophy and science. He > proposed rejecting it and many still cling to it. > I cannot see how anyone can reject the claim that human knowledge is not > somehow tied up in the workings of the human brain, based on individual > intelligence, experience, thinking about those experiences, and entering > into conversations with other about them. > > I truly don't know whether to laugh or cry that after 15 years it is still > the case with many still are unable or unwilling to accept RMP's rejection > of SO premise or accept the most basic premise that experience is a basis > for knowledge. Yet whole heartedly accept his quality premise which is > predicated of acceptance of these claims. > > Then someone suggested to me that those most strongly attracted to Pirsig's > work identify personally with his saga and view him as this ruggedly > individualist "walking wounded" intellectual hero that society has ground > down and thwarted at every turn. Whispering to themselves in effect, "Yea > just like me!" Unfortunately our claims are true. And maybe in part RMP's > are too. But for entirely different reasons. We probably just don't have the > intellectual power and background in the first place necessary to tackle > these issues on our own. > > Not that society can be held completely blameless. The whole history (myth > in reality) of philosophy and science has been portrayed as the consequences > of the thoughts of super smart named individuals like Socrates, Plato, on > and on. And RMP bought into that myth pure and simple. Had he early on been > to integrate himself into an appropriate group his contributions would > probably been earlier and greater. > > What got me thinking this way was when Krimel (I think) raised the issue of > RMP's apparent misunderstanding or lack of consideration in Lila with more > recently progress in science particularly evolutionary sciences. While > recently listening to the radio broadcasts that Marsha posted I heard the > term "Science Wars" for the first time. My ignorance of them, while not > excusable, might be understood given my nearly complete day to day focus on > the practical matter of building. Given Pirsig's focus, however, that they > should have started in 1962 with the publishing of Thomas Kuhn's, "The > Structure of Scientific Revolutions" and raged on during the whole time he > was writing both his books with no mention is an indication IMHO of his > isolation from the reality of what was going on in the fields he was talking > about while researching and writing about them, particularly Lila. > > Why? Because the "Science Wars" were about the very same issues that Pirsig > was trying to confront. Questions like "Do values that influence science?, > "If so which ones and how?", "Is science and individual or group activity?" > "Is theory or experiment more important?" All these and more raised for the > first time in a serious way. But we read no mention of this in Lila. > > Conclusions or insights of these wars? Well they are still going on, but it > is becoming clearer and clearer that all scientific and philosophical > knowledge is filtered, warped, shaped, informed by social values and there > is in fact not some pure form of objective, valueless, intellectual truth > the S/O project supposed. That Good is as good as you get. > > All the broadcasts are good and help expand RMP's insights but this one: > Episode 10 - Brian Wynne > http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/features/science/index.html#episode1 > Best covers the history of the "Science Wars" IMHO. > > Dave > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of KAYE >> PALM-LEIS Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 1:20 PM To: >> [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] Intellect's Symposium > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
