On Feb 4, 2010, at 5:32 PM, David Thomas <[email protected]> wrote:
I'm sorry, but I can't make heads or tails out of this sentence. Care to proofread it, and try again? > ...Then at the end of the day when developing the MoQ that he [Pirsig] would > place the very approach he criticizes, SOM > science, as the sole source intellectual knowledge just doesn't make sense. Pirsig never makes any such claim. You are putting words into people mouths with passion but without justification. Please don't pick a fight with something that you think has value (you did take the time to read Lila) just to take a position. The MOQ states that the intellectual level "consists of the collection and skilled manipulation of abstract, language-derived symbols that can either have no corresponding particular experience or can, and which behave according to rules of their own." When you have a culture without a written language, this is a hard standard to achieve. Don't get defensive about a perceived slight which feels like culture relativism. I have no doubt that the genius(es) who built Stonehenge qualify, as would geniuses from the Native American population who had no way to record their thoughts. In fact, if you read my previous post [and ZAMM, and Lila], you'll have a hard time prosecuting Pirsig (and Sidis) for valuing Native American thinking as anything other than world-class. The Greeks may have invented the jury trial and elections, but Pirsig and Sidis credit Indians with a healthy percentage of the political concept of democracy. I like the definition of the fourth level and believe it makes a worthy border. The Bible makes a good test case. I'm not sure how well I remember the book of Genesis, but I don't think of it as particularly abstract. The following quote from Neil Postman is, I think, relevant. There is no equivalent in Native American anthropology of which I'm aware. It concerns the second commandment of the decalogue: "'Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water beneath the earth.' ...The God of the Jews was to exist in the Word and through the Word, an unprecedented conception requiring the highest order of abstract thinking. ...People like ourselves who are in the process of converting their culture from word-centered to image-centered might profit by reflecting on this mosaic injunction." -Amusing Ourselves to Death. Ian > I think we have two problems here. One Pirsig either misspoke or miss > thought about the nature of intellect/intellectual when he suggested the > intellectual level did not emerge in human societies until the Greeks. > ...Now to claim, and it doesn't matter if this is RMP or Bo's claim, that > these > people had no "intellect", no power or capacity for knowledge or reason,or > did it only by S/O methods, is just plain WRONG,UNTRUE,FALSE and UNGOOD. > It is the worst type of Social Darwinism, RACISM period. END OF STORY Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
