Gav, If you are asking me, Absolute is beyond my comprehension; Quality is indivisible, undefinable and unknowable
Marsha On Feb 6, 2010, at 6:30 PM, gav wrote: > plato: good is relative; truth is absolute > pirsig: truth is relative; good is absolute > > is this summary accurate? > > > > --- On Sun, 7/2/10, david buchanan <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: david buchanan <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [MD] Intellect's Symposium >> To: [email protected] >> Received: Sunday, 7 February, 2010, 9:55 AM >> >> >> Marsha said: >> Here's is a broad definition of relativism by Ugo Zilioli: >> "Statements in a certain domain can be deemed correct or >> incorrect only relative to some framework" >> >> dmb says: >> Okay. That's a very vague version of the specific case I >> just made, which was relativism as it relates to linguistic >> contexts. I believe that definition is far too general to be >> meaningful here AND it comes from a defender of relativism. >> >> >> Marsha said: >> Appealing to the authority of 'most postmodernists?' >> Is this the 'case' you made? >> >> dmb says: >> Authority? I don't know what you're talking about. I merely >> described the general position held by postmodern thinks in >> addition to the particular position held by a specific >> thinker. Your objections and questions seem increasingly >> insincere, like you're trying to complicate simple things on >> purpose. Why? >> dmb had said: >> As I understand it, the MOQ agrees with contextualism >> (we're suspended in language) and it agrees that these >> contexts are constructed (analogy upon analogy) but it says >> these contexts are not constructed arbitrarily (Quality is >> not arbitrary or capricious) and the pragmatic theory of >> truth does not abandon empirical restraints (it has to agree >> with experience and function in experience). These >> non-linguistic constraints distinguish the MOQ from this >> relativism. >> >> Marsha replied: >> Where does the MoQ agree with >> contextualism? I thought the MoQ agreed >> with Protagoras' Measure Doctrine. Arbitrary and >> capricious? Is 'arbitrary and capricious' your >> definition of relativism? >> >> dmb says: >> >> All of the stuff I put in parentheses references Pirsig >> quotes. I can't tell you what page it is where Pirsig agrees >> with the notion that "we're suspended in language", where >> Pirsig says our world is built of analogies, where Pirsig >> says that Quality is "not arbitrary or capricious". But >> you've seen them. You know they're in there. And how can you >> ask about the measure doctrine as if I hadn't just quoted >> Pirsig on that? He said virtue "was absolutely central to >> their teaching, but how are you going to teach virtue if you >> teach the relativity of all ethical ideas?" and "QUALITY! >> VIRTUE! DHARMA! THAT is what the Sophists were teaching! NOT >> ethical relativism."? >> >> Marsha said: >> There is only one kind of truth individuals have knowledge >> of and that is static quality, and that is relative to the >> "different static pattern of life history" and the immediate >> direct experience. As I understand it, the >> MoQ agrees with relativism (relative to experience). >> >> >> dmb says: >> >> Well I don't know how to distinguish that from solipsism or >> plain old narcissism. I don't understand how you can >> relativism out of this stuff when Pirsig is so plainly and >> explicitly saying that the Sophists were teaching Quality >> and "not ethical relativism". Especially since he's saying >> that just as the central quest of the whole book is finally >> resolved. >> >> >> But you are at a distinct advantage being a relativist >> because that means you can't really be wrong about >> relativism or anything else. Must be nice. Maybe I should >> convert and then I can just respond to objections by saying, >> "well, it's true for me" or "it's true in my context". >> That'll be so much easier. Ah, I feel relieved of a great >> burden already. Thanks Marsha. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM >> protection. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > > > > __________________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo!7: Catch-up on your favourite Channel 7 TV shows easily, legally, and > for free at PLUS7. www.tv.yahoo.com.au/plus7 > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
