Hey Ham, Thanks for the quotes explaining capitalism to those who have been brainwashed in academe by historian Howard Zinn and other radical leftists. It's a breath of fresh air to be exposed to such intellectual giants as Hayek and de Tocqueville again.
Warm regards, Platt On 13 Feb 2010 at 18:13, Ham Priday wrote: > Hi Dave -- > > > > Platt leans to the right, DMB and many others here lean to the left. > > RMP tried to straddle the fence but in the end he too leans towards the > > socialist side of the spectrum. He defends socialism because in theory > > it's > > intellectual, more moral, but lays it aside because by and large as > > practiced it doesn't work. He defends capitalism because it works, but in > > the same breath discounts it as less moral because it is not intellectual. > > He is torn between his love of theory and his understanding that theories > > are subject to the pragmatic test of how good they work. Nowhere is this > > more crucial than at the social level. > > I'm not an historian, but I don't see the basis for RMP's argument that > Socialism is "more intellectual or moral" than Capitalism. Certainly these > human qualities do not define the practice of the two contrasting political > ideologies. F. A. Hayek points out that Socialism is "authoritarian" in > that it makes property and the means of production subservient to > government, whereas Capitalism is basically "democratic", respecting the > right of individuals to own private property and the rewards of their own > productivity. > > "It is rarely remembered now that socialism in its beginnings was frankly > authoritarian. It began quite openly as a reaction against the liberalism > of the French Revolution. The French writers who laid its foundation had no > doubt that their ideas could be put into practice only by a strong > dictatorial government. The first of modern planners, Saint-Simon, > predicted that those who did not obey his proposed planning boards would be > 'treated as cattle.' > > "Nobody saw more clearly than the great political thinker de Tocqueville > that democracy stands in an irreconcilable conflict with socialism: > 'Democracy extends the sphere of individual freedom,' he said. 'Democracy > attaches all possible value to each man,' he said in 1848, 'while socialism > makes each man a mere agent, a mere number'. Democracy and socialism have > nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while > democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint > and servitude." > > "To allay these suspicions and to harness to its cart the strongest of all > political motives - the craving for freedom - socialists began increasingly > to make use of the promise of a 'new freedom.' Socialism was to bring > 'economic freedom,' without which political freedom was 'not worth > ving.' --[Hayek: The Great Utopia] > > I ask you, which is more "intellectual" -- a centralized government that > holds all the power and controls the people as a collective society, or > individuals who freely exercise their power to produce wealth and elect > government officials to represent them? > > Speaking for myself, even if it were true that centralized power and state > control are necessary for an "optimally effective" economy, I would opt for > the preservation of individual liberty and free enterprise. (Incidentally, > Adam Smith was wrong "that the amount of the world's wealth remained > constant and that a state could only increase its wealth at the expense of > another state." People and resources, not the state, are the creators of > wealth.) > > As for all this talk about the "morality of Socialism" as opposed to the > "greed of Capitalism", I suspect most of the MD participants privately would > concur with me. > > Thanks for this exposition, though, David. It is well done and obviously > thought-provoking. > > Best regards, > Ham Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
