Bo > Bo before >>> I use the "Q-intellect" term to "distinguishing between >>> objective and subjective" - AKA Reason. >Bo responsed > Human reason sounds like "intelligence", my contention is that the > INTELLECTUAL LEVEL is the S/O split, nothing about human or > intelligence please.
In the first statement you say "AKA Reason" yet when I use the term "human reason" you then object 'reason' is "nothing about human." What the????? If you suggested that "reason" has nothing to do with humans, what next, humans don't exist? > Bo confirms > But I affirm: Intellect is the subject/object distinction. I could buy: Intellect [invented] the subject/object distinction. If you could, we're half way there. Then roll back the time of intellect's emergence to about the time homo sapiens emerged and you got it. See how close you are! Just as social behaviors preceded the emergence of the social level, the intellect's behaviors had to precede the emergence of the intellectual level. > You Dave seem to keep your door ajar for the MOQ in contrast to the > other Dave who has closed it and works inside the Church of Reason > with a corrupted MOQ to secure his fame and fortune. Unlike the two of you, I have no illusions about any personal "fame or fortune" arising from anything I could add or take away from Pirsig's work. I'd be happy just to understand it. I think I'm making a little progress this time through. Yesterday I reread the review by Strawson to check the philosopher he suggested RMP's work resembled. Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel. This time around and particularly in view of where this thread started that claim is much more understandable. Some commonality in their thinking based on snips from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Wilhelm_Friedrich_Hegel 1. [Both have developed] a reputation for their difficulty and for the breadth of the topics they attempt to cover. 2. [Their thinking]..is..a constructive development within the broad tradition that includes Plato and Kant. 3. [Both] regard freedom .. both as real and as having important .. implications, 4.[Both see]..philosophy, culture, and society .. fraught with contradictions and tensions, such as those between the subject and object of knowledge, mind and nature, self and Other, freedom and authority, knowledge and faith. 5. And [Both] renders these dualities intelligible by (ultimately) .... "Quality" .... in order to achieve "reality." 6. [Their works] influence ... two opposing camps [Left & Right]. [Right Camp].. advocated a Protestant orthodoxy and the political conservatism. [Left Camp] spawned Marxism, which inspired a global movement lasting more than 150 years, encompassing the Russian Revolution, the Chinese Revolution and even more national-liberation movements of the 20th century. 7... some going so far as to refer to [both their works] as pseudo-philosophy. Sure this an overly simplified skim which the "real philosophers" here will poo-poo, but their work does have some strange parallels. But here is a piece of Hegel that I think we all need to remember: ".. a much misunderstood phenomenon in the history of philosophy the refutation of one system by another, of an earlier by a later. Most commonly the refutation is taken in a purely negative sense to mean that the system refuted has ceased to count for anything, has been set aside and done for. Were it so, the history of philosophy would be, of all studies, most saddening, displaying, as it does, the refutation of every system which time has brought forth. Now although it may be admitted that every philosophy has been refuted, it must be in an equal degree maintained that no philosophy has been refuted. And that in two ways. For first, every philosophy that deserves the name always embodies the Idea: and secondly, every system represents one particular factor or particular stage in the evolution of the Idea. The refutation of a philosophy, therefore, only means that its barriers are crossed, and its special principle reduced to a factor in the completer principle that follows." Inky dinky spider climbs up the water spout Along comes the rain and washes the spider out Along comes the sun and dries out the rain Inky dinky spider climbs up the spout again Obscurantism forever, Dave > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
