Bodvar announced:
> > Of course the old Egyptians, Babylonians, Stonehengers and every
> > culture known or unknown were as INTELLIGENT as present day humankind,
> > they induced, deduced, conceived, calculated and built complicated
> > edifices without having the faintest INTELLECTUAL knowledge that this
> > was "theoretical planning", "deductive thinking". Also, without the
> > least knowledge of hypotenuses, legs and squares upon these, they
> > applied all geometrical relationships on to their work.
Ron:
> The tablets and papyrus found show the use of algebra and geometry
> used for theoretical planning 300 to 1000 yrs before Pythagoras was
> said to have been born. Babylonian, Indian and chinease all before
> Pythagoras . Pythagoras was the first to work out a proof to the
> theorem however.
Bo:
Well, this was - and have been my position for years - people of old did
all the things you say, only with the Greeks and the intellectual level
did all this become academical disciplines and "theorems" were
worked out to show why/how all these relationships were objectively
true.
Ron:
Your grasp of history and mathematics is almost child like, a proof is handy to
check
your work before setting out to accomplish it, the Pythagoreans probably did see
this as a support of their philosphical beliefs but I would'nt tie that small
sect to all of
Greek culture which ,for the most part, were pantheists but you associate any
sort
of theism with social level patterns, by your own reasoning, one must be an
atheist to be
using intellectual level patterns..right?so academic discipline is now the
earmark
for intellectual level patterns. I'm going to have to look into other cultures
having academic
disciplines before or during the same time,I'm willing to bet they did.
Pythagoreanism had two things going for it, the math was handy and useful, it
was
precise. The other is that it had a hand in the development of christianity
which as
you know, was adopted by the Roman empire. If you want to call this the
emrgence of
intellectual truth, one could because this is how our western society
understands
those terms to mean. But is it true? no...objective truth is'nt true...even
Aristotle
said way back when, that it presents philosophical difficulties.
Bo:
Glad to see you - inadvertently perhaps - support the SOL
interpretation.
Ron:
Glad to participate in another one of your dilusions even inadvertantly
but I do not endorse the SOL interpetation, I understand it, don't get me
wrong, but I do not agree with it.
Bodvar:
> > Where did Pirsig ask this? I don't doubt it, but would like to know the
> > context. Where did Pirsig ask this? I don't doubt it, but would like to
> > know the context.
> Ron:
> In the Turner letter silly, thought you had that thing memorized.
If it was this passage:
Another subtler confusion exists between the word, "intellect,"
that can mean thought about anything and the word,
"intellectual," where abstract thought itself is of primary
importance. Thus, though it may be assumed that the
Egyptians who preceded the Greeks had intellect, it can be
doubted that theirs was an intellectual culture.
I can't see it faintly matching your ..." RMP asked for some proof of
Egyptian cultures use of long chain of deductions before the Greeks",
rather him saying that the term "intellect" is ambiguous - at least in US
English - not so in the proper language where it means distinguishing-
between what's objective and what's subjective (... between reason
and emotions as my Oxford Advanced says.
At least what can be abstracted from this is that although the
Egyptians were intelligent people they were pre-4th. level, later he
speaks of the Greeks as proper 4th. levels, and in a MOQ context
"Greek" spells SOM ...ipso factum. However, even if you all in turn -
Pirsig included - have affirmed the SOL, it has now become anathema
and no one can budge, I may have added to this impasse due to my
style.
Ron:
If your style is being under read and over assumptive, then yes it makes
speaking with you difficult.
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