Hi Mary and Lu, I don't often post on the group - don't have much time, but occasionally I see something that I feel I absolutely must comment on.
I have worked in male dominated fields (computer science, audio engineering, and vintage car restoration, as well as being an artist - a field that also has a lot of men in it) my entire life and have had many, many extraordinary relationships and friendships with male friends (musicians (including handsome rock stars), mechanics, engineers, contractors, heavy equip. operators, you get the picture... they do things considered typically 'male': cars, construction, big trucks so on...and many of them are what you might consider 'alpha' males as well (physically/biologically). I have to say that I disagree with you profoundly about men and their emotions. I've found many, many men who are quite open and honest about expressing their feelings (while still remaining very 'male' (and sexually interesting)); many of them are quite capable of articulating verbally many things they are feeling - sometimes, in fact, how emotionally hurt they have been in the past, often by insensitive women. Yes I have also been around physically violent men, and conversely, I've also known plenty of men who have been with physically or verbally abusive women (it's socially OK for men to be 'hen pecked' right)? In fact, as I've posted here before about this - a long time ago - I mentioned that some should try watching TV sometime with the express interest in paying attention to how socially acceptable it is for women to 'put down' men as being 'stupid' and even ok for women to slap, punch or pinch men...but NOT ok for a man to do anything even remotely similar - even in commercials. In fact, it's actually considered cute and funny (with laugh track) that a ditzy blond can 'slap' a man in a bar for looking at another woman. Try reversing the genders in that scenario. I do understand that some men are, as you suggest - not connected to their emotions - and some even violent as a result; often this is because they were terribly damaged as children but guess what? All men had mothers. How to stop the cycle of violence? By perpetuating the idea that 'all men are this way?'? I guess I've just been lucky, but when I started out in the coast guard (as an electronics tech) over 25 years ago, I learned that many guys DID want to talk about their feelings and open up emotionally (even when they were in their 20's) but felt that most women did not give them the room to do that and let them continue to be male at the same time. [i.e. maybe it's the expectations that the women have about how a man is supposed to act... that if a man DOES let down his guard, the woman isn't going to find him attractive anymore] The more I have embraced men for just being 'human' right along side me, the more they open up. And personally, I'd rather have a multi-dimensional companion and not a stereotype or have to 'play' some kind of social game where the male can ONLY ruffle his feathers a certain way (or play a mean guitar and flip his hair back across his face seductively). The buck stops where? Who makes the rules? We all do. Pirsig even explored some of this dynamic in Lila... if I'm remembering correctly - it was Phaedrus who wanted to open up, but Lila who shut him down. Sorry to jump in this way - when I haven't even properly introduced myself to you, Mary - some of the others from a few years ago will recognize my name and I'm sure I'll agree with some of your other posts from time to time - just had to speak up on this one. I tend to make a lot of feminists mad. Also, I have a tendency to post once in a while and not post again for months - so I apologize in advance for this. Margaret And - as a side note: you posted to Lu: ..."glad to hear that you've caught a good one"... - often it's difficult to hear ourselves when we're objectifying something so profound as a deep and complicated connection with another human being. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
