John said:
But seriously, I honestly feel that every time I get in a debate with you, you
come to a certain point and then close down. There's no resolution to scores
of arguments I've proposed and there's no continuation to completion any
dialogue we've had. It's discouraging to me, and even you must admit there must
be something wrong.
dmb says:
I close down? Unless I missed it, you still haven't said a word about the case
I repeated. After repeated it and I walked you through the argument, which you
accussed me of never making in the first place, you got discouraged and stopped
talking. I mean, isn't it just a fact that you closed down?
Same thing happened with Steve and I. After repeatedly challenging his concept
of truth, he just dropped it without answering the one and only question I'd
been asking. Then he started a new thread in which I did not participate
(because I figured he was sick of me) and yet the thread was all about what a
dick I am. This is a patten that repeats over and over. When the debate gets
too tough, the topic somehow always gets switched to what a bad person I am.
While this reaction is understandable, it is not intellectually respectable.
It's pretty childish, actually.
John said:
I understand you are under time pressures and other pressures and it's sorta
facile for me to judge, laying back in my broken down shack with all the time
in the world to be annoying. I admit, it's hardly fair. But I don't spend
hours thinking up stuff to say, or figuring out the correctness of my position,
I just state my case as logically as I can in the moment, and invite you to do
the same. No need to overthink,...
dmb says:
Well, thanks for that. There is some homework due at 5:30 that I'm not doing
right now, so I'll have to be brief here. For whatever it's worth, I just state
my case too. It just so happens that school work has me saturated with this
stuff so there are usually relevant quotes at my elbow.
John said to dmb:
The idea of religious play within a context of a Quality metaphysics, seems so
offensive to you that you can't be objective. It seems you take your own
religious views of atheism so fundamentally, that you don't allow any other
game. That's projection on my part. How accurate, you'd have to tell me. But
the primary essense of my assertion, that the MoQ is a unification of science
AND religion, and that both are EQUALLY patterns of value, then why can't a
theist also be an MoQist? Explain this rationally to me please.
dmb says:
The MOQ does claim to unify art, science and religion by making DQ the basis of
them all, but there is also the problem of comparing social level traditions
(like institutional theism) with intellectual level patterns like science. That
deserves a fuller explanation but that will have to wait. You could also
revisit the case I walked you through, because that does explain something
about this issue.
But let me say that your impression is not at all accurate. The idea that I
won't allow any other game but atheism is defied by the way I spent MOST of my
time. The Master's thesis I'm working on is all about the pragmatic mysticism
of Pirsig and James and this is the kind of research project that makes it
completely impossible to avoid the arguments of theists. Right now I'm working
on the bibliography and so there are about 50 sources at my side that discuss
nothing but pragmatism as it relates to religious studies. As I see it, theism
and atheism are both wrong. This area has interested me for a long time and
I've spent a lot of time and energy thinking about it. I don't mention this
stuff to make a case that being back in school makes me special or smarter than
anybody else, but just to point out that my actual, non-virtual life bears no
resemblance to the accusations of knee-jerkism or rigidity or
closed-mindedness. It's just not possible to be that way and live the life
that I'm living. They would kick me out or flunk me out, and rightly so.
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