Marsha said to dmb:
To speak of a reality that is a monism using a language that is based on a
dualistic reality comprised of subjects and objects is difficult.
dmb says:
It's more difficult to talk about monisms and dualisms than it is to talk about
fish and breadsticks but that doesn't address the point. The point is that
you're treating intellectual static quality patterns as if they were
unpatterned, dynamic and ineffable. Concepts are not ineffable. When Pirsig
says that, "any philosophic explanation of Quality is going to be both false
and true precisely because it is a philosophic explanation", he is saying that
Quality is not conceptual but philosophic explanations are conceptual. (ZMM,
Chapter 20) This matches the claim he makes in chapter 5 of Lila, where he says
philosophical mystics, "share a common belief that the fundamental nature of
reality is outside language". It matches what he tells us in chapter 9, where
he says, "even the name, 'Quality' was a kind of definition since it tended to
associate mystic reality with certain fixed and limited understandings." And
then there is the explanation at the end of chapter 29, where quot
es William James saying, "there must always be a discrepancy between concepts
and reality, because the former are static and discontinuous while the latter
is dynamic and flowing". See?
He makes the same point when he says that the MOQ is a contradiction because
metaphysics is a philosophic explanation full of concepts and definitions
whereas Quality (DQ) is what you know prior to definitions, ahead of definitons.
To use the ineffable, non-conceptual nature of Quality to shut down a
conversation about the meaning of concepts is, I think, not a legitimate move.
I mean, dealing with difficult concepts is one thing but treating them as
pre-conceptual and indefinable only confuses Pirsig's often repeated point.
Does that point make sense to you? You see what I'm saying?
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