dmb to Andre: Thanks Andre. I think your comments are right and well put. Andre: Thank you for your encouragement dmb.
dmb: I think Bo has his own thing going but he makes a common mistake. He misunderstands the most basic distinction of the MOQ There is another major misconception involved in Bo's SOL. His formulation defies the MOQ's repositioning of subjects and objects. Andre: Yes, his reasoning really defies me sometimes (if not most of the time). And it is interesting that you argue that ' They are leaving Quality out of the Metaphysics of Quality'. Bodvar keeps on harping on about the 'real' Phaedrus of ZMM, the 'discoverer' of Quality, an, as you know, inductive dynamic story. The pace of the book is fast, motorcycle speed (if you like) environmental changes heaping themselves up one after the other as personal changes heap themselves up one after the other. DQ LILA is deductive, the central work has been done (ZMM) now it is time to integrate this into the world of 'everyday affairs' ( picking up bar ladies and the like). The pace is very different. It is a floating, an unfolding and integrating of static patterns of Quality derived from the central ZMM insight. SQ It is integrating this new insight, Phaedrus as an 'intellectual pattern of Quality' , taking on Lila (biological) and Rigel (social/intellectual,SOM). And we are witness to the difficulties Phaedrus encounters ( he clearly follows the gut-level/affective insights of ZMM [ of course Lila has Quality] but how to come up with a convincing, from the hip-pocket answer? He struggles... re-formulating, re-stating, re-interpreting, re-analysing the responses he gets from the SOM world in an effort to integrate those within the MoQ...to come, as close as is possible, using everyday language, to make himself and his Quality perspective and reference point understood.( similar to the way Quality, which he had defended and had given up so much for, and which he never, at any time once understood, 'revealed' itself).ZMM Bodvar wants revolution, an immediate jailing and execution of the old guard (SOM) and start afresh. Problem is: the world don't work that way, as Phaedrus shows in LILA. The establishment of a new (Western world) order has to deal with, and overcome, the mythos that has generated that world. This is extremely difficult and does take time (the example of Russia and China, amongst others) is good example of this. I get the sense that Bodvar holds Pirsig personally responsible for this by accusing him of not understanding his own metaphysics. I think, (and I stand corrected on this), that the MoQ is not, contrary to Bodvar's inerpretation, 'out of SOM', the way the social level is 'out of' the inorganic level. Sure it has used it (as ZMM tells us) but it is out of radical empiricism, direct experience, the direct experience of the undifferentiated aesthetic continuum, recognised as such and reinforced and confirmed by the insights of Eastern philosophies and of course the Native American experience with Dusenburry. Pirsig never argues an 'emergence of the MoQ' out of SOM. Rather he argues strongly that the only beef he has with a S/O analysis is that it does not recognise Quality, and further to this that one should not eliminate it, discard it, destroy it. No,... one needs to expand it to incorporate values as its reference point. Pirsig shows how this can/should be done but again, Bodvar seems very dismissive of this. I get the sense that Bodvar is dissappointed with this 'expansion' argument also.He sees it as a poor SOM/Quality paste job. Putting these together, you do create a lot of misconceptions for yourself....and a lot of other people. Imho Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
