[Platt]
Arlo says something inherent in static patterns responds to DQ. ...
So much for patterns responding to DQ.
[Arlo]
Are you suggesting "living beings" are not patterns?
Are you suggesting this is a good time to revisit the questions you
spent a month evading a while back (about what could respond to DQ
before humans, or before "living beings")?? If so, I'm happy to represent them.
[Arlo previously]
Gee. You want to instigate another dialogue you are incapable of
responding to already? Cool. Answer me the following.
Was there ever a time nothing existed that could respond to DQ? Or at
every point in time was there something that could?
What responded to DQ before "man"?
What is another "living being" that once could respond to DQ but no
longer can? Or is no longer in existence?
Give me an example from our vast anthropological and historical
warehouse of knowledge, just ONE example, of a "living being" other
than man responding to DQ? Say in the entire Cretaceous period (a
span of 70 million years, certainly some "living being" was able to
respond to DQ during that entire time? Give me an example, or even
take a guess!)
Yes, let's take the Cretaceous as a good starting point. 70 million
years. No "man". A plethora of "living beings".
So, was ANY of them able to respond to DQ? How?
What were they doing (in response to DQ) that other "living beings"
today are no longer able to do?
Its obvious Pirsig misspoke here (he is not infallible), since in
other places he makes it clear that responding to DQ is something
even atoms and amoebas can do. (Reflect on the fact that Pirsig
himself says the Quality of ZMM is the DQ of LILA. Then reread the
amoeba/acid passage.)
What Pirsig SHOULD have said is "only a living being can respond to
DQ with a BIOLOGICAL repertoire of possibility", then go on to say
"only SOME living beings of sufficient complexity can respond to DQ
with a SOCIAL repertoire of possibility", then maybe even "only MAN
can respond to DQ with an INTELLECTUAL repertoire of possibility (and
possibly some higher mammals)".
Then he'd be on firm ground. Indeed, he says so much in ZMM. "An
amoeba, placed on a plate of water with a drip of dilute sulfuric
acid placed nearby, will pull away from the acid (I think). If it
could speak the amoeba, without knowing anything about sulfuric acid,
could say, "This environment has poor quality."[HERE] If it had a
nervous system it would act in a much more complex way to overcome
the poor quality of the environment. It would seek analogues, that
is, images and symbols from its previous experience, to define the
unpleasant nature of its new environment and thus "understand" it. In
our highly complex organic state we advanced organisms respond to our
environment with an invention of many marvelous analogues." (ZMM)
The amoeba responds to DQ with a very limited "set of analogues"
(repertoire of responses). More complex organisms are able to respond
socially. Even more complex, intellectually. He talks about the "hot
stove" as an example of a person responding to DQ. This is the SAME
as the amoeba responding to nearby acid.
The initial reaction to pull away is both responding BIOLOGICALLY to
DQ. The human can later develop an "understanding", in other words
can later also respond INTELLCTUALLY (founded on his assimilation of
social patterns).
Here Pirsig is on firm ground. Just considering your quote alone, he
is not. And neither are you.
Because when you take that little quote and really think about it, it
simply can't hold water. Unless you think you can answer any of my
above questions. I know you can't. And here's where you prove me
right. (I'll remind everyone that I've asked you these questions
several times before (in the archives), and every time you
demonstrated only that you are incapable of answering, giving only
distractive rhetoric (just like you did about the distinctions
between "chance" and "DQ".) And yet you drumbeat that quote. Sad.
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