Hi Horse,
I've wondered about this question. Would the MoQ have meaning for an
alternative life-form ("life-form" used for lack of a better term).
Their evolution is entirely different. They could point to an absolute
creator about which none of their kind could doubt (us).
They would have evolved great analytic capacity without a social foundation.
They would have no concept of emotions. I figure they'd have no truck with
empathy, anger, love, possibly fear (not sure about that one). I do think
they'd have to develop an ego. If they failed to value their own existence
they'd be doomed.
Maybe they'd keep a few of us around to honor their origins. In a zoo
maybe? Or to maintain ecological diversity. Or maybe to worship if we were
really lucky.
I wonder?
Mary
> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Horse
> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 5:33 PM
> You're confusing computers with robots (or possibly cyborgs). There's a
> big difference and computers are ubiquitous.
> They're in your car, your microwave, your camera, your phone, probably
> your oven and your fridge and hundreds of other places. Many of them
> are
> using Neural network and/or fuzzy logic techniques and are able to
> learn.
> You also seem to be anthropomorphising them - why would they need
> religions, governments armies etc.?
> Computer programs are communicating with each other all the time,
> without the intervention of humans. There are programs that can alter
> their own structures and pass these changes onto other programs in real
> time - lateral evolution. They're called viruses and they are most
> definitely analogous to biological viruses and have gone from extremely
> simple structures to highly complex forms and are getting more complex
> all the time. And these programs are fairly simple in comparison to the
> hugely complex structures that run things like, f.ex. the Internet.
> The point here is that they are not based on carbon - they're based on
> silicon - and they already have a biological level which is independent
> of their inorganic level. How many millions of years did it take for
> carbon-based creatures to get to that level of complexity and yet these
> have gotten there in a few tens of years.
> I really doubt that we'll be aware of programs becoming social level
> entities because they'll be completely different from what we've
> experienced so far. Different Social level values to anything we know.
> I
> doubt it'll take that long though.
>
> Horse
>
> On 15/04/2010 21:58, [email protected] wrote:
> > Would you care to speculate what the computer social level might be
> > like? Would it have religion? What sort of government would it have?
> > Who would control its army? Where would it put criminals? What system
> > would it use to create and exchange goods and services? The more
> > specifics you can furnish, the better.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Platt
> >
> > On 15 Apr 2010 at 18:36, Horse wrote:
> >
> >
> >> You're missing the point Platt - if they are intelligent and thus
> have
> >> an intellectual level - they would have a social level. Pirsig's
> point
> >> about ants and bees etc. isn't relevant. If computers ever did
> become
> >> intelligent it would be through a different but analogous path.
> >>
> >> On 15/04/2010 17:21, [email protected] wrote:
> >>
> >>> This is the notion that any old group constitutes a social level, a
> notion
> >>> flatly denied by Pirsig:
> >>>
> >>> "One can also call ants and bees "social" insects, but for purposes
> of
> >>> precision in the MOQ social patterns should be defined as human
> and
> >>> subjective. Unlike cells and bees and ants they cannot be detected
> with
> >>> an objective scientific instrument. For example there is no
> objective
> >>> scientific instrument that can distinguish between a king and
> commoner,
> >>> because the difference is social." (LC, Note 49)
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Platt
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 15 Apr 2010 at 17:10, Horse wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> But they wouldn't be destroying their own social level - they'd be
> >>>> destroying ours. If they were intelligent and significantly
> different to
> >>>> us their social level would remain intact. Why would they worry?
> >>>>
> >>>> On 15/04/2010 16:35, Platt Holden wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> It would be just like intelligent computers to attain such a
> level of
> >>>>> arrogance that they would believe they would be better off by
> eliminating
> >>>>> the social level on which their existence depends.
> >>>>> Reminds me of some intellectuals I know.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>> Platt
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Tudor
> Boloni<[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> would be morally correct to kill us if they feel
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> a) they will be able to contribute more ideas and intellectual
> patterns
> >>>>>> than
> >>>>>> human can achieve
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> b) they determine humans are eating up too many resources and
> produce too
> >>>>>> few intellectual patterns for the expense
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> am i missing something?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> tudor
> >>>>>>
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>
> --
>
> Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
> arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but to skid
> in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other, body thoroughly
> used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"...
> Hunter S Thompson
>
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