Marsha to Andre: I do support Bo's point-of-view when if comes to the intellectual level being SOM and the MoQ representing an emerging Quality Level, but my choice of 'outer' and 'inner' has more to do with seeing where the West and East focused their interest. I could just have easily written 'phenomenon' and 'mind'.
Andre: Marsha, you are sometimes like the eel in a bucket of snot! You want to wriggle your way out of positions by appealing to DQ/SQ. But this makes your position seem superfluous which it isn't. This is a form of nihilism and you (as PoV's)have not emerged into this universal pattern for no reason. Bodvar is the opposite and this makes it interesting: Bodvar places everything into boxes ( SOM, mind, intellect, language, emotions, etc). This is, for me, speaking truely from the 'objective' SOM point of view and the danger is that you lose sight of the nuances, the different emphases on important issues within a philosophical framework. It appears to me that (for example) Bodvar does not distinguish at all between the MOQ's 'subject' and 'object' as (radically!) opposed to the SOM idea of S/O. Nuances, differences and shades of opinions are dismissed and immediately reduced to SOM!!! Your 'mind'is just such an example. As though 'mind' is evil (concept) in itself. Mind is an intellectual derivative of direct, pure experience. And, may I hasten to add a construct by a very primitive sense of value. We would be better off without the notion of 'mind' altogether and instead use the simple intellectual PoV ... but Bodvar, and you, it seems, appear to see and re-create, from tradition, this unfounded (because disproven) mind- over- matter thing or this 'objective over subjective thing. I really do not comprehend where this is coming from. Certainly not from ZMM or LILA! And if the argument is put that Pirsig himself is responsible for this then I would simply say: You saw it, I didn't; so where do you get it from!!?? (and I do not want a rehash of the ZMM chart. Lila has been revelatory in the nuance difference. If you are really interested in the difference between the East and the Western interpretation of reality I really would recommend Northrop, as mentioned by Pirsig, who considered himself a student of Northrop. That is all. Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
