Hi Matt, John, Steve said: >> I like this distinction between knowledge-that and knowledge-how and >> not just because it has to do with beavers. Do you think that >> knowledge-that versus knowledge-how can be used to distinquish between >> intellectual patterns and other types of patterns? Is knowledge-how >> ever intellectual or always biological or social? Is knowledge-that >> ever other than intellectual?
Matt: > I think if we follow the Turner letter definition of intellectual > patterns as manipulation of symbols, then that's pretty > much coextensive with propositional knowing-that. And > that, I think, would mean that bio and social are > know-how--you can't articulate what you are doing, but > you get things done successfully nevertheless. The trouble, > as always, in the schematic is how to describe DQ's place. Steve: I was hoping this distinction might be helpful in understanding Pirsig's intellectual level from a different angle than symbol manipulation, and I think it does help. For example, John has been saying that intelligence is not only something that applies to intellectual patterns but also to biological patterns as well. I disagree, but I would at this point say that knowledge-how occurs at all levels but knowledge-that is what we mean by Pirsig's intellect. Of course knowledge-that is a sort of knowledge-how because it enables new behaviors, so we don't need to distinguish between knowledge-how and knowledge that within the intellectual level. But if we are taking about knowledge-that we are definitely talking about the intellectual level. (As I've said many times before, if we are talking about rationales for behavior rather than about a behavior itself, we are also most definitely talking about intellect even though rationalizing is itself a behavior.) Matt: > I remember reading a transcript of a lecture Pirsig gave > once where (if memory serves) he used Bertrand Russell's > distinction between knowledge by appearance and > knowledge by description to catch hold of the same thing. Steve: Are you talking about SODV? If not, I don't think I ever read that one. Best, Steve Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
