Hello Ham,
I understand static quality to be a relational aspect of quality: ever-changing, impermanent and relative. And please, calling me a nihilist has as much substance as calling me pretty in pink. You are such a cutie! Marsha On May 8, 2010, at 2:25 AM, Ham Priday wrote: > > Greetings Mary -- > > > [Marsha, previously]: >> I understand the only way towards an Ultimate Truth is to discover the >> falseness of static patterns(experience): not this, not that. There >> is no permanence to static patterns(experience) so in what sense could >> they ever be true. Could it be that patterns that last longer are >> somehow more true? But that would mean time is the measure of truth, >> and time is itself a static pattern of value. > > [Mary Replies]: >> Yes. We would do well to contemplate the idea that time itself >> is a static pattern of value. >> >> Through SOM we arrived at the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. >> This should tell us that there was a "time" when time was meaningless. >> All the static patterns built up on top of this idea of time are false. >> The foundation upon which these patterns are built is clay. > > Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle tells us only that beyond the sensible > range of finitude (i.e., the quanta level) the more precisely the position of > a particle is given, the less precisely can one say what its momentum is. > This principle demonstrates a limitation of experience, rather than > qualifying the "time stream" as such. Actually, Heisenberg himself discussed > the possibility that behind our observational data might be a hidden reality > in which quantum systems have definite values for position and momentum, > unaffected by the uncertainty relations. He dismissed this conception as > meaningless speculation because, as he said, "the aim of physics is only to > describe observable data." > > Classical Philosophy has given us the maxim that nothing can come from > nothing. If you believe this, then the space/time world of appearances > ultimately alludes to a fundamental or True Reality. Otherwise, you fall > into the camp which rejects any reality as "true". A system of interrelating > things or "patterns" that depend on each other for their existence without a > primary source describes the paradox of infinite regression -- a logical > fallacy. > > I'm not sure about you, Mary, but I fear that Marsha has succumbed to this > nihilistic view. She will try to deny it on the ground that she believes in > 'Quality'. But Quality (Value) can only be realized experientially, so it is > no less a "pattern" than is the experiencing subject. And, although Pirsig > could have posited his 'DQ' as the Primary Source, thus providing his quality > thesis with a metaphysical foundation, he chose not to. > > I am firmly convinced that an "Absolute Essence" is the primary, underlying > source of all appearances. The Essentialist ontology follows from this > conviction, and it explains "existence" as the affect of a negated > sensibility experiencing reality (otherness) as Being divided by nothingness. > The mode of subjective awareness is dimensional in time and space; and while > objective experience is relative and provisional, the Value from which it is > derived is absolute and unconditional. In a metaphysical sense, Value, > Sensibility, and Truth are One in Essence. Ultimately, difference and > contrariety are transcended by eliminating the nothingness that separates > them. > > I realize this is a lot to digest in a posted message. But it has long been > my view that had Mr. Pirsig gone that extra step by making Quality a > relational aspect of Reality, rather than reality itself, he would have > avoided most of the confusion surrounding the MoQ. > > Thanks for your indulgence, Mary, and best regards, > Ham > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
