On Jun 1, 2010, at 10:01 AM, Andre Broersen wrote: > Bodvar to Marsha: > > Right you are Marsha the intellectual level is SOM all the way, at least >> S/O, the "M" is handed over to the MOQ. However, an "observation" >> on the "structure" part. You hold it lightly Marsha, and that's good, but >> it ought to be erased totally. > > Marsha: > I do not understand your point. In spite of my choice of words and > phrases, it's Reality is Quality(unpatterned/patterned). > > Andre: > Are you beginning to see what Bodvar is getting at Marsha?? Because of HIS > definition of the intellectual level as SOM it indeed 'erases' everything > else ( i.e any other way of representing immediate experience). YOU 'hold' > the level 'lightly' because the interpretation (at the intellectual level) of > immediate experience does not restrict itself to a S/O analysis as Bodvar > will have it.
I haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about. I understand 'immediate experience' or unpatterned experience, to be, well, unpatterned... > He praises you for recognizing his own restriction imposed at this level > (which is not yours) and argues from there that it needs 'to be erased > totally'...so that his quality/hyper/super/rebel-level can be inaugurated. Again, I do not understand your interpretation of Bo's designating the fourth level as SOM. > You, however show that this is a fallacious view. You're not serious, right? > The only thing I can say at this stage Marsha is 'stick to your guns'. What? I still see the Intellectual Level as SOM!!! > The whole notion of the evolutionary framework Mr. Pirsig has cast the MOQ in > is that the emergence of one level 'above' the other is that it permits and > has found more expressions of freedom. Yes. > At the highest level (the intellectual one...short of DQ the absolute most > freedom at this stage) Bodvar's SOL/SOM restricts this level to all the > dichotomies Platt mentioned in his last post to me. I have also agreed with Bo that there is an emergence of a Quality-Level, and that is where many paradoxes resolve themselves. > This is an immoral act. Pure, immediate experience will and does not let > itself be interpreted as a S/O representation only. There is no interpretation within immediate experience. > As you are experiencing this, this is very short-sighted and not following > the very basic premise of the MOW. It is not empirically sustainable...it is > Bodvar's and not the MOQ's premise. ( it's a bbq...'bodvar buys quality' > argument...) In your sentence, who is experiencing what? What is short-sighted? MOW? > It is Value before anything else! > > For what it is worth. > Andre Of course it is Value before anything else, but only when one has dumped the idea that reality is comprised of subjects and objects. Marsha ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
