skutvik said to dmb:
My jaw hang slack from asking and pointed to "What does the term 'intellect'
mean" issue. My dictionary says "the power of mind to distinguish between
reason and emotion". That reason = objectivity while emotion = subjectivity is
plain, hence INTELLECT = (the value of distinguishing between) S and O.
dmb says:
The dictionary is using a common sense distinction between feelings and
rational thought but the difference between subjective emotions and rational
objectivity is not the same thing as SOM. Both would be considered mental,
after all. By contrast, SOM is the view that there are two kinds of reality,
two kinds of substance. Objectivity is a way of thinking, but objects are the
other kind of stuff. They're physical, not mental. See, SOM is a position about
the structure of reality but the difference between emotions and the skilled
use of abstractions is not. In terms of SOM, emotions and thoughts are BOTH
subjective. (Although these days a SOMER is also likely to equate emotions and
thoughts with brain states, which means they are understood as objective,
physical realities.)
Bo said:
All dictionaries are somish where things goes on in minds, ergo does it not
matter one iota what the definitions are, intellect is something that takes
place on the mental plane. And - phew - Pirsig forgets that he has created a
metaphysics that rejects SOM's mind and matter and accepts this most obvious
somish hook, bait and line.
dmb says:
I think it's fairly obvious that you're fundamentally confused as to the nature
of SOM. Also, the Philosophy of Mind is some seriously complicated stuff and so
it's really quite ridiculous to rely on a dictionary definition. I don't think
Pirsig reverts back to SOM. You see it that way because you've re-defined SOM
as something much, much bigger than it actually is. For you, SOM includes any
distinction made, any dualism ever conceived. But actually, SOM is just one
particular dualism.
I've tried to explain this several times already, by the way, but it never
matters. Seems you have a strange definition of all the most important terms
and so a correction of one quickly leads to a the next idea, which has also
been crucially misconstrued, and then another, and then it has become a huge
task. Knowing from experience that this will be a tedious, thankless task with
no discernible impact, I'd have to be a fool to do it again.
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