Actually John, no ... fortunately a good referee is still human, he/she says sod the objectification, I make the decisions around here, and humanity progresses. (The technology may present the objective facts more clearly, but fortunately that's not what games are about, they're about intentions; objectives in the purposeful sense - technology doesn't help there, at least not directly, only with hindsight, etc.) Ian
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 6:24 PM, John Carl <[email protected]> wrote: > Ian, > > I'm interested in a new phenomena taking over games, wherein video replay > shows the audience and the refs what REALLY happened. Was his toe on the > line? Who last touched the ball? There seems to be a fascinating tendency > to get more and more of our reality from technological imagery - the image > is becoming the final word, and the players mere actors. Objectification > marches on. A strange loop in the making. > > John > > On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 3:09 AM, Ian Glendinning > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Hi Matt, (and Krim et al) >> >> More that that, >> >> When you stop discussing the what and start discussing the how, the >> how becomes the what (the subject). >> Meta. This is the essence of level shifting strange loops. The essence >> of evolution, loops that do more than go round in circles. >> >> (A hobby of mine is to apply this thinking to rules in sports - which >> is why I jumped on the original quote of yours - my main interest if >> football though. Rules that get introduced into the way the game is >> managed - by the referee - but bring about changes in the way the game >> is played - by the players - and therefore demand new rules in the way >> the game is refereed, etc .... metaphor for evolution in all forms of >> governance.) >> >> Example http://www.psybertron.org/?p=1757 >> >> Ian >> >> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Matt Kundert >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > Hey Ian, >> > >> >> First joining up the comment of Krim's you responded to here, with our >> >> "siding with Bush" discussion in the other thread. >> >> Krim made the distinction here : "the differences between not what but >> >> how liberals think". >> >> The "what" is the specific immediate tactical situation, the "how" is >> >> the strategic rhetorical process. >> > >> > I think you're right to see the parallel, but I think wrong to >> > strictly assimilate them in this way. The distinctions of >> > tactics/strategy and what/how are definitely parallel, but >> > the what/how I was discussing with Krimel, I think, is at a >> > different level some of the time. For instance, wondering >> > about what we should talk to with other people, "the what" >> > or "the how"? That's a tactical curiosity, which makes the >> > what/how subsumed underneath the tactics half of the >> > tactics/strategy. >> > >> > We can alter the relationships between the two distinctions >> > to generate different questions, but to just assimilate >> > "tactics" to "what" is blur away the possibility of wondering >> > (in a confusion of levels to make my point) tactically useful >> > to talk about tactics. >> > >> > Matt >> > >> > _________________________________________________________________ >> > The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with >> Hotmail. >> > >> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4 >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list >> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> > Archives: >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> > http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
