Excellent Matt / Mary Another counter intuitive strange loop. Making humility explicit, devalues it.
Making the good "truly" definitive makes it bad / less good. Love it. The time has come for meta-meta-physics, methinks. Ian On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Matt Kundert <[email protected]> wrote: > >> [Mary Replies] >> I hear what you are saying, though I don't at the moment remember who the >> rhetoriticians were vs the dialecticians, or even necessarily where Plato >> came down on anything (it's late). I don't have to 'always be right', but I >> have the right to speak up and if you think I am being overly assertive I >> refer you to almost any other post by any other person for examples of real >> acrimony. There is a double standard. Sometimes I choose to pretend it is >> not there. > > Mary--this is what I don't understand. I never said you > have to "always be right." I was talking about the > consequences of a philosophical thesis. You and I differ on > it, and I thought you were airing out, in a reasonable > manner, a root of disagreement. I thought you were > right: this does appear to be a root disagreement, > because--as I reconstruct--you want to make humility a > philosophical assertion (about which may or may not be > assented to) and I want to leave it a personal virtue. You > think that the philosophical assertion is important, I think > because it leads to personal humility (something along the > lines of "Pirsig and the Buddha held this thesis about > humility, therefore their own personal humility was a > consequence of it"). I think just the opposite happens. I > think once one turns it into a philosophical assertion, you > pave the way for ignoring humility. > > But when I opened up this area where it would seem we > disagree, you thought I was saying _you_ have a > personality fault, "always be right," or that I didn't think > you had a right to speak up, or were being overly > assertive. Your post was refreshing absent of acrimony > (despite the fact that expressions of "I hope for your sake > you grow out of what you think some day" seem naturally > condescending, but what else is really at stake when we > engage in the act of persuasion). I thought I mentioned > that. But I do absolutely think that in the long run, > adherence to your view has more potential to create > acrimonious people than my view, as counterintuitive as > that may seem. And it's for the reason Pirsig laid out at > the end of ZMM, when you make the Good subservient to > the True, which is what I think happens when you > makeover humility into a philosophical thesis. > > Matt > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your > inbox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
