Oh Ian, I can't help it neither.
I can't help thinking this is descending into a linguistic game that > has nothing whatsoever to do with this thread (about Horse's > decision). > > Linguistic game? Coming from you, I appreciate that immensely. For you know it's all linguistic games. The Quality question being, which games to take more seriously than others. > > And for John, who also seems to like the linguistic games or exegesis > or hermeneutics of the ancient texts .... Pirsig's first recorded > reference to the MoQ was in fact as "a Quality metaphysics" .... don't > read too much into that. > > Got me again! Almost. Anyway, you started it Ian. The linguistic gamesmanship I mean with the ol' plant and all. I'm just a simple guy who'd have to look up "hermeneutics" in a dictionary before I'd be comfortable using it in a sentence, or figuring out how to construe it proper. Same with exegesis. > As you were, don't mind me. > I always do. I should probably stop soon. ol' John > Ian > > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 6:38 PM, John Carl <[email protected]> wrote: > > Andy, you're flirting with my idea of the levels now, which I distinguish > > from the MoQ by calling it a Quality metaphysics as opposed to a > Metaphysics > > of Quality and use the designation Q'm" > > > > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Andy Skelton <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> Craig, you neglected to justify your premise that > >> > 1) The intellectual level is the manipulation of symbolic > representations > >> > >> Consider that social interaction is communication from a self to an > >> other, i.e. manipulation of symbols between subjects and objects. > >> Otherness is created at level 3, not level 4. > >> > >> > > > > That there is a key point. However, I see the creation of symbolic > > representation of otherness as a 3rd level phenomena and the manipulation > of > > those symbols the defining characteristic of the 4th. I view SOM as the > > basic starting point of the 4th level, but not the whole thing. In fact, > I > > view the 4th level as unbounded at the upper ends, since you can > objectify > > patterns infinitely. Any metaphysics that can be stated, can be > transcended > > and built upon in an infinite progression of knowing. There is no limit > to > > intellect. > > > > > > To summarize: > > > > 1st level: patterns > > > > 2nd level: intelligent patterns (possessed of choice) > > > > 3rd level: Socially intelligent patterns > > > > 4th level: Intellectual/Artistic patterns progressing infinitely toward > DQ > > > > > > > > > >> 1) The social level is the manipulation of symbolic representations > >> 2) Symbolic representation requires both something-represented & > >> something-represented-to > >> 3) Something-represented is an object > >> 4) Something-represented-to is a subject > >> 5) The social level requires subjects & objects > >> 6) :. The intellectual level requires subjects and objects > >> > >> I suppose this is a more Pirsigian proof. But as I've said, I am not > >> nearly qualified to speak about this. > >> > >> > > A good thinker is always Qualified. > > > > > > John, staying at home today and glad for something to think > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
