In the "Decision" thread, Arlo said:
["Four!"] is not a sentence...
Craig replied:
Substitute "Duck!".
dmb says:
Grammatically correct sentences do generally require a subject and object but I
think it is a mistake to conflate this with subject-object metaphysics. The
former refers to the structure of language, to the parts of speech but the
latter refers to the structure of reality.
The relationship between the two is relevant in a different sort of way,
however. If Pirsig is right, there is a reason why languages without that sort
of structure are also unlikely to arrive at a subject-object metaphysics. I
think the structure of the language is related to the structure of metaphysics
the way social level patterns are related to intellectual level patterns. The
latter grows out of the former. The Christian soul morphed into the Cartesian
mind in similar way. This is how analogies grow in relation to previous
analogies, how new concepts can only ever be conceived in relation to the old
concepts. And this is really just a way of saying that our basic thought
structures greatly influence all of the more advanced and abstract
conceptualizations.
But we can see that the grammatical demands of english are just habits of
language. As Pirsig points out, the assertions of the MOQ "may sound a little
awkward at first, but that's a matter of linguistic custom, not science. The
language used to describe the data is changed but the scientific data itself is
unchanged." ... "Again the difference linguistic. It doesn't make a whit of
difference in the laboratory which term is used. No dials change their
readings. The observed laboratory data are exactly the same." (Lila, pages 104
and 105 respectively)
"When one takes the whole ill-shaped, misfitting structure of a subject-object
explained universe apart and puts it back together in a value-centered
metaphysics, all kinds of orphaned puzzle pieces fit beautifully that never fit
before." (Lila 102)
"Actually the issue before him was not whether there should be a metaphysics of
quality or not. There already IS a metaphysics of Quality. A subject-object
metaphysics is in fact a metaphysics in which the first division of Quality -
the first slice of undivided experience - is into subjects and objects. Once
you have made that slice, all of human experience is supposed to fit into one
of these two boxes. The trouble is, it doesn't. What he had seen was that there
is a metaphysical box that sits above these two boxes, Quality itself. And once
he'd seen this he also saw a huge number of ways in which Quality can be
divided. Subjects and objects are just one of the ways." (Lila 108)
Here we see another reason to deny Bo's equation. SOM is just one way to slice
it. The MOQ is another. Isn't he saying that they are both products of the
analytical knife? And isn't that just another way of saying they are both
intellectual? Intellect is what divides undivided experience, not any
particular division. That's way too narrow, so narrow that slicing things up
any other way would be impossible. Problem is, that's exactly what the MOQ is.
It's a different way to divide the undivided reality.
p.s. "Fore!" is short for "Watch out in front!". It's what ducks say when other
golfers are on the fairway ahead of them but they're too impatient to wait. Of
course when they say it, "Fore!" just sounds like any other "Quack!". This only
increases the chances of injury because the other golfers get distracted
looking for the hidden water hazard. You'd be surprised to learn how many
golfers are killed by ducks each year. This is a valuable warning.
p.s.s. The bartender asked them what they were having and the biggest duck
said, "I'd like fore drinks and please put it on my bill".
> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 19:04:41 +0000
> Subject: [MD] Decision
>
> [Arlo said]
> > ["Four!"] is not a sentence...
>
> [Craig replied]
>
> Substitute "Duck!".
>
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