Good morning, John --


Did you know Alex G. Bell proposed "Ahoy" as the proper
telephone greeting?  Which goes to show you can invent something
but that doesn't mean you have any control over how people use it.

He must have been a navy man.

I see.
I think.
Seeing that I think, I infer an existence.
Thinking that I see, I infer an essence.

But does the precept "I" (as in "I see" and "I think") infer that the essence is you?

Am I a percept or a concept?  The physical parts of my body I perceive,
but that "I" doing the perceiving,   I'd surmise is conceptual.

Why is the subjective 'I' fraught with so much confusion? It is amazing to me that people can deny what is their most intimate identity. Certainly self-awareness (selfness, selfhood) is a "concept". But it is the first of all concepts, since without it there can be no concepts.

I must confess that reconciling myself to the fact that 'I' is a non-essence was one of the most difficult issues of my ontology. Yet, there was no alternative: Absolute Essence does not exist in fragments or pieces. The individuated self subsists entirely on the "otherness" from which it is negated. What saved the day (and my sanity) was the realization that my core self was Sensibility, and that Sensibility is nothing but Value-awareness. Unlike Essence, Value can be individualized and differentiated, and (in the process of experience) converted to concrete objects and their relations which constitute the world of appearances.

> From the SEP:

"Royce's friendly but longstanding dispute with William James, known as
'The Battle of the Absolute,' deeply influenced both philosophers' thought.
In his later works, Royce reconceived his metaphysics as an "absolute
pragmatism" grounded in semiotics. This view dispenses with the Absolute
Mind of previous idealism and instead characterizes reality as a universe of ideas or signs which occur in a process of being interpreted by an infinite
community of minds. These minds, and the community they constitute, may
themselves be understood as signs. Royce's ethics, philosophy of community,
philosophy of religion, and logic reflect this metaphysical position."

So the variety of conceptions, reveal the perennial reality of the thing,
according to Royce.  So Ham's, Royce's, Pirsig's and Bradley's conception
of Absolute Quality (in Pirsigian term) are all different fingers pointing at
the moon.

Now I'm guessing, but I'd say that any one conception is not THE conception,
but each conception is the best at a certain time, coming from a certain
place.

Conceptual equivocation covers a multitude of errors, which is why I find it inadequate as a foundation for ontology. Such reasoning is like saying "All roads lead to Rome", so it doesn't matter what or whose concept gets us there. But concepts aren't just analogies or metaphors to please the soul; they are the principles of an Ultimate Truth which, while unprovable, is also invariable. The philosopher cannot be satisfied with either/or postulates or conclusions drawn from polls sampled under various conditions.

Concepts exist! Even if "only" in our head, The real reality out there is
influenced by our preconceptualized ways of knowing.  And ideas exist.
Don't you agree with Pirsig, that "the law of gravity" exists? It exists as
an idea, just as the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy.

I agree that physical laws exist as intellectual concepts. However, I do NOT agree that what exists is Reality. If existence were all there is to Reality, we would not need religion and philosophy to fulfill our lives. Our "ways of knowing" are preconceptualized by value-sensibility. It is experience that differentiates value to make existence (being and nothingness) our reality.

Admittely, some ideas are better than others - which makes "betterness" a
foundation for reality, hmmmm?  (I'll convert you yet, Ham)

When it comes to Truth, ideas don't count. Science could not have advanced on the basis that "some ideas are better than others." Neither can philosophy. The laws and principles of nature represent the order of existence which, in turn, reflects the perfection of Essence. Ad hominem ideas and improvisations may satisfy our artistic aspirations, but they don't bring us closer to metaphysical truth.

[John, concerning Idealism]:
Ron's mentioned a couple of times that the MoQ is of the
Philosophical Idealism breed, and of course I agree,
since that's been my cant here from day one.

jeez.  When I think how many times I've said this, and in
so many ways...and to be accused of trying to "sneak"...

Sorry.. distracted for a minute by a different dialogue.

I'm getting in the mood to  revisit  the Copleston Annotations.
I've learned a bit regarding Idealism since I last reviewed.
It'd be fun, I think.  Annotate the annotations of what are basically,
Annotations.

And doing it here so anyone can Annotate them.

See why I say a 4th level of intellectual patterns is infinite at the upper
boundary?

I don't like the sound of that, John. "Idealism" has a bad connotation for me; namely, the notion that reality is ultimately open to infinite possibilities. See, that's the problem I have with the classical definition of idealism as "a theory that the essential nature of reality lies in consciousness or reason." I am an essentialist, not a subjectivist, and I don't believe consciousness or intellect determines the essence of reality. In fact, I believe it's the other way around: Essence determines the perceived order of existence.

Let me know what you make of the Copleston Annotations. From what I recall, they are mainly RMP demonstrating the practice of what he called philosophilology. But maybe you'll surprise me.

Best regards,
Ham

Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org/md/archives.html

Reply via email to