Hi Mary, I agree with what you are saying here. I, too, see the MoQ as something higher than the Intellectual Level.
Marsha On Jul 25, 2010, at 10:12 PM, Mary wrote: > Hello Khoo, > > Sorry, I was not trying to call you out or bait you as is the basic pattern > of this list of late, but I would like to start a clear conversation > sometime. It seems like the major reason you have problems with seeing the > Intellectual _Static_ Level as SOM has to do with an exclusion of Eastern > values. This is so, but if you've followed the protracted conversations on > this topic you might be aware that those of us who view SOM as the > Intellectual _Static_ Level also view the MoQ as something higher than that. > What I think Pirsig is trying to point to is that the MoQ is equivalent to > the Dharma, and that both these operate at a higher plane than the mere > Intellectual Level - which is, need I repeat Static. :) I don't imagine you > view Dharma as _static_, but I could be wrong? > > Best, > Mary > >> Mary, >> >> Since you called me out, is it your intention to bait me with the >> comments >> below? if you are, I am going to ignore this post of yours >> If you are not, then try to address my point that Eastern civilisations >> such >> as the Chinese, have evolved their respective intellectual levels such >> that they are not dominated by SOM, but where other intellectual >> patterns have taken hold. >> >> Thank you. >> Khoo Hock Aun >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Mary <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Nah. Read that post again. Khoo can't stand the thought that the >>> Intellectual Level is SOM because he wants to think that all >> Easterner's >>> are >>> above that. He seems to think that an Easterner can have no home in >> the >>> Intellectual Level as SOM and that that is somehow degrading? >> Interesting. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> Mary >>> >>>> Nice Khoo, >>>> >>>> You really make the point well that we are engaged in an infinite >>>> process, >>>> and if we expect any sort of finality we're going to be >> disappointed. >>>> >>>> But even while our formulations and dialectical wrangling seem >> endless, >>>> we >>>> ought to also be progressing - getting us somewhere. >>>> >>>> I myself feel happy and content with my own evolving ideas, >> generated >>>> by the >>>> many good ideas and thinkers on this list for their time, effort >> and >>>> care. >>>> I want to thank each and every contributor, the more infuriating, >> the >>>> better. >>>> >>>> As always, Khoo, you bring a fresh wind and a fresh perspective. >>>> >>>> Good words, and I appreciate them. >>>> >>>> >>>> John. >>>> >>>> >>>> n Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Khoo Hock Aun >> <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That many can read an author like Pirsig and come away with >> widely >>>>> differing >>>>> understandings is to be expected. >>>>> >>>>> I would have thought a more open dynamic mind would be completely >>>> receptive >>>>> to what Pirsig was trying to convey. A closed static mind, sees >> the >>>> MOQ >>>>> only >>>>> in its own mould. In Bo's case, I would venture fourth stage >> meta- >>>> stasis >>>>> had already set in years ago. >>>>> >>>>> Pirsig should have added a caveat, that the MOQ is not for >> everyone >>>> to >>>>> grasp >>>>> at first instance. For some it could takes, years, decades or >> even a >>>>> lifetime. >>>>> >>>>> Dave added: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I really, really hate what you're doing to this place, clogging >> it >>>> up >>>>> with >>>>>> this hair-brained nonsense all the time. I listened to it for >> over >>>> a >>>>> decade >>>>>> now and I'm just sick to death of it. Please, get a hobby. Go >> away. >>>> Let >>>>> us >>>>>> do philosophy, will you? That would be "a promising >> development". >>>>>> >>>>> Khoo would like to say: >>>>> >>>>> I, for one, really appreciate all your exertions, as do all else >> who >>>> labour >>>>> like you do to clarify our understanding of the MOQ and Quality >> as >>>>> presented >>>>> by Pirsig. >>>>> >>>>> It is not wasted, even if it might be on Bo. >>>>> >>>>> It has helped instead to refresh our perspectives, place into >>>> context, >>>>> again >>>>> and again by repeated defence against the assault on Pirsig's >> MOQ. >>>>> >>>>> Lurkers and newbies alike, if I may say so, who disdain but >> endure >>>> the >>>>> endless, sometimes pointless argumentation over basic >> definitions, >>>> see much >>>>> value in defending Pirsig's formulation of the MOQ, given that it >> is >>>> THAT >>>>> which drew them here in the first place, not a pretender's >> version. >>>>> >>>>> If and when, we, as a discussion group, leave all this >> "adolesecent" >>>>> sparring behind, I hope we can explore the new vistas an expanded >>>>> rationality can explore. >>>>> >>>>> We still have not bridged Western and Eastern philosophies yet, >> which >>>> is >>>>> one >>>>> such great promise of the MOQ finding common ground I look >> forward >>>> to; >>>>> by understanding how Eastern civilisations have achieved their >>>> respective >>>>> intellectual levels as compared to the SOM-dominated Western >>>> worldview. >>>>> >>>>> We will cross the bridge when we come to it. But we are not there >>>> yet. >>>>> Not when we still have to come to terms with tendencies no matter >> how >>>> overt >>>>> or latent, for Western hegemony over the rest of the world. >>>>> >>>>> It does looks like a slog, but then again, who can ask for a >> better >>>> cast of >>>>> characters than on the this list to make philosophy an ongoing >>>> dynamic >>>>> battle, an everyday real-life clash of ideas sometimes couched in >>>> terms of >>>>> "biblical proportions" and implications. It gets the adrenaline >>>> pumping; >>>>> emotional drivers that help meld the static and the dynamic to >> yield >>>>> creative insight by the clash of the rhetorical swords. >>>>> >>>>> You stay keen and sharp by your own vigilance for the real and >> good. >>>> This >>>>> state of mind does not come in the absence of opponents and >>>> detractors who >>>>> distract by imposing themselves on you. >>>>> >>>>> Thats all they do and want to do. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards >>>>> Khoo Hock Aun >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> [email protected] >> 6016-301 4079 >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
