Marsha: This only shows that you don't see what the problem is.
On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:24 PM, david buchanan wrote: > > Marsha said to dmb: > 'Shop Class as Soulcraft'? I've read Kant, Nietzsche, Hume, Descartes and > others when I was taking philosophy classes as an undergraduate student and > many others since, am I going to need to read 'Shop Class as Soulcraft' too? > > dmb says: > Crawford's book is well worth reading but I posted a quote and offered an > explanation of it simply to make a point. I also think it's pretty neat that > the Crawford quote refers to a point Pirsig made in his book. I'd be happy if > you simply read the post and got the point. This is a simple matter of > joining a conversation, a matter of grappling with some common ideas, ideas > already in circulation. I'm sure others have made the same point too and in a > very real sense it hardly matters WHO said it or WHERE it was said. Your job > is simply to understand WHAT is being said. This is just as true if you're a > waitress, a mechanic or a philosopher. Since you have apparently missed the > point - again - I'll repeat it. > > "Pirsig's mechanic is, in the original sense of the term, an idiot. Indee, he > exemplifies the truth about idiocy, which is that it is at once an ethical > and a cognitive failure. The Greek idios mean 'private', and an idiotes mean > a private person, as opposed to aperson in theior public role - for example, > that of a motorcycle mechanic. Pirsig's mechanic is idiotic because he fails > to grasp his public role, which entail, or shold, a relation of active > concern to others, and to the machine. He is not involved. It is not his > problem. Because he is an idiot.This still comes across in the related > English words 'idiomatic' and 'idiosyncratic', which similarly suggests self > enclosure. For example, when a foreigner asks him for directions, the idiot > will reply idiomatically, rather than refer to a shared coordinate system. H > ealso lacks the attnetive oopeness that seeks thing out in the shared world, > as when Pirsig's mechanic 'barely listened to the piston slap before saying, > 'Oh y ea > h. Tappets'. At bottom, the idiot is a solipsist." (Matthew Crawford, "Shop > Class as Soulcraft", page 98.) dmb explained: Rather than refer to a shared > coordinate system - for example the english language - the idiot will respond > with idoisnycratic meanings and defintions of her own. She might, for > example, define 'patterns" as "amorphous" or use "static" to mean > "ever-changing". This is a cognitive failure as well as ethical failure. Plus > it's really annoying and it's likely to draw unflattering comments from > anyone who sees this idiocy. > > > > > On Aug 4, 2010, at 10:34 AM, david buchanan wrote: > >> >> Marsha said to dmb: >> Hahahaha... You ask Ham to think, but what you are really saying is that >> you cannot think or explain for yourself so accept your second had source >> from Wikipedia. Intellectual competency? >> >> >> dmb says: >> No, what I'm saying is that the problem with SOM can be understood from any >> number of perspectives. In this case, we can quote a Wiki article or a >> passage from Lila or from the works of William James or from the writings of >> Nietzsche. Nobody has to take my word for it and this is not an idea that >> belongs to me. Intellectual competence in this area means, among other >> things, the ability to enter into a public conversation that's been going on >> since before you and I were born and will continue after we're dead. In a >> nutshell, discussing an age-old philosophical problem is not for idiots. You >> gotta pull your head out of your ass and look around at what's already been >> said. It requires a decent respect for the thinkers who got there before >> you. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of self-centered, self-absorbed, >> solipsistic bullshit. As Crawford put it, idiocy is both a cognitive and an >> ethical failure. In other words, it's stupid and sleazy. >> >> >> >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
