On Sep 4, 2010, at 6:54 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > Ade, > > I might agree that bits and pieces of patterns are held within an > individual's > memory, and this memory (bits and pieces of pattern) are held collectively > across many individuals as collective memory constituting a more static se of > pattern. To me it seems that most static patterns of value are held below > consciousness. Some social patterns and most intellectual patterns are > within > conscious awareness. But this is all speculations for the purpose of > comparing > Jung's point-of-view within a Metaphysics of Quality. > > Within the MoQ there is also the classification of the different types of > patterns > into a hierarchical, evolutionary structure moving towards a more dynamic > state > which represent betterment: inorganic, biological, social and intellectual. > My > > memory of Jung is quite stale. I've more recently read and viewed much > dialogue > > between David Bohm and Krishnamurti, and some of this discussion supports the > MoQ's position, and some of it doesn't. I think Krishnamurti has said that > all > thinking > is the source of self (knower) and objects (known) and is at fault in > creating > a false duality. > > I experience/understand the MoQ to most basically to represent Reality is > Quality(unpatterned experience/patterned experience). > > If it is helpful to you for now to make connections between Jung and Pirsig, > I > say go for it. The idea is never just to believe what is being suggested, > but to > examine it deeply and find out for yourself. > > Now I can only hope I have not made matters worse. > > > Marsha > > > Hello Marsha, > I think we are doing OK. > I'll try to give an example. Jung explored deeply the history of Alchemy. > When i first heard about this i thought wacko stations. But i was very much > mistake because Jung made a remarkable discovery. > When the Alchemists wrote they were actually talking about the subconscious > and even they didn't know it. > Or maybe they did? > The point is, like when Robert Pirsig consulted the Tao and felt it fit what > he had been moving toward, so Jung felt the Alchemists had known all > along what he had been moving toward. And when that happens you know you're > onto something. Would you agree? > Underneath all that transmutation symbology was the same structure Jung had > noticed while listening to hours upon hours of those he was trying to help. > If the same symbols crop up generations and cultures apart this hints at a > common source. > > > Robert Pirsig is human. As was Jung. You and i are human and we share the > same collective as they. > We all have access to the same pool. > That pool connects with a transcendent reality Robert Pirsig calls Quality or > Dynamic Quality. > Jung calls it something else. > The thing is, this pool which connects to transcendent reality is not > addressed in the moq, which makes the moq incomplete in my opinion. > Actually, it is recognised implicitly in the novels of Robert Pirsig, but not > explained by his metaphysics. > This raises the possibility of a synthesis between them, and this is the work > of the creative thinker. You have just said this yourself. > So you are very far from making matters worse because you value, like i > believe i do myself, a willingness to avoid dogma and get stuck in. > > > It's not easy letting go. > But the world isn't going to end if you do so. You may make a fool of > yourself, but what does that mean? > It means you have been judged to have socially faltered in some sense. > Does the thinker care about that? > I think you understand what i'm saying. > Thank you > Ade
Greetings Ade, When I started to read ZMM I was not struck intellectually, although there was that appeal, I was hit by a strong sense of intuitive rightness. Here was a man explaining things that I had for years tried to get from Vedic/Yoga texts. I felt I was being lifted. It's many years later, and many years struggling with LILA, and I can say it has only gotten better. While the transcendent is not specifically addressed in the MoQ, it is there for those with the intention of touching it. And once you touch it it is everywhere, in every idea and in every word. Even though I am an introverted thinker, my face has colored more than a few times at my own behavior: exposing my ignorance/arrogance. But I have such love for this experience I go past my embarrassment to try to let better ideas and words find and go through me. Should anyone mind being a fool for such a beautiful cause? I don't think so. No way! It may be hard to believe, but I HATE to talk about myself so publicly... Thank you. Love, Marsha ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
