Hi Mark, Well, I know too little to argue one way or the other with any 'certainty', but then it sounds like neither does the science community. I like open puzzlements because that's where a new way of 'seeing how things really are' may arise. And these interpretations are all patterns, right, ever-changing, interrelated, impermanent static patterns of value.
I know there are many paths, but I doubt that scientific materialism will warm up, any time soon, to the subjective idea of spirituality. That idea is further out there than unicorns. That walk you suggested might have been a better plan than this post, but the topic is so interesting and I see it intersecting with the MoQ. And most definitely it's easy to think of a paintbrush as measurement. Thanks Mark. Marsha On Oct 4, 2010, at 1:52 PM, 118 wrote: > Hi Marsha, > > I would address what you call the quantum enigma in two ways. > > This enigma could well be a result of the current limitation is physics. > That is we do not have the appropriate math for creating a more suitable > model, which allows the observer to continue to detach him/herself from the > so called objective world using measurable systems. Now, this point of view > is part of the Promissory Materialism dogma which is upheld by Scientism. > That is, if we have faith and wait patiently, all will be revealed through > science. It is impossible to disprove this assertion. > > Another point of view would be that it is impossible to separate the > observer from the observed. There are many analogies for this and I will > resort once again to physics. If we are to create an equation to explain > everything, then we must be part of that equation. In other words, our > creation of the equation has to be incorporated into that equation. As you > can see, this would result in an endless paradox. > > Readings on interpretations of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle in lay > terms gives much better explanations than I am capable of. Suffice it to > say that many particle physicists become somewhat spiritual. Of course, > there are many paths to spirituality. > > One final comment. Measurement, and the artificial separation of reality, > has been dealt with in numerous discussion of the limitations of science. > If you think of measurement more as a paintbrush this might provide some > insight. > > Cheers, > Mark > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 1:01 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Hi Mark, >> >> I would ask how you would address the quantum enigma, the measurement >> problem: the apparent creation of reality by conscious observation. I have >> always found it interesting the many points-of-view brought to these >> discussions. >> I might see Quality from a unpatterned/patterned point-of-view, you from a >> biochemical point-of-view, dmb from a Radical Empiricist/American >> Pragmatist >> point-of-view, Ham from his Essence point-of-view, and the many others. It >> always >> seem to come down to the measurement problem. The scientific conundrum >> might >> be that the questions asked and the instruments used in the measurement are >> our >> reality. Once beyond Reality equals Quality, it comes down to reality >> equals our >> static patterns, or reality is whatever patterns one grasps at any given >> moment. >> It seems to me that it is here where we will leave the subject/object >> orientation >> for a value orientation. >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Oct 3, 2010, at 9:07 PM, 118 wrote: >> >>> he human body is indeed a waterfall, and, speaking as a Bioelectrochemist >>> (my Ph.D.), we are harnessing high potential energy as reduced substances >>> and then converting it into awareness. Kind of like a waterwheel on a >>> waterfall. It is that flow of energy that produces the sense of being. >> Of >>> course there are lots of other ways of describing it (pictures and poetry >>> included), but I still dwell in the world of science. >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
