Hi again Mark, I haven't read the full book yet, mostly just scanned it. I also have another by B. Alan Wallace on the way called, 'The Taboo of Subjectivity: Towards a New Science of Consciousness.' It also looks to offer some interesting insight.
Marsha On Oct 9, 2010, at 12:46 PM, 118 wrote: > Hi Marsha, > > Thanks for that. The subjective and objective delimitation. The creation > of an object followed by our severing ties with it. This is analogous to > the notion of Maya and Brahman as written in the Vedic texts. An our > particular avatarian (if that is a word) presence, is Atman. > > Such delimitation is at the crux of my current inquiry into values. That > is, a description of that boundary, beyond stating that it exists. Thus, > Buddhism and all those other questions. Others on the forum have answered > this in their own way, but not yet to my personal meaningful understanding. > > > Still looking for clues. > > Mark > > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 10:18 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> More on SOM being the basis of the way intellectual static patterns of >> value function: >> >> >> >> "Everything in the world that we conceive of and experience is related to >> the mind. When that world is reified however, it appears to exist >> absolutely, in its own right; and this mental distortion may lead one to >> wonder how nature can be comprehensible to the human mind. Einstein, who >> routed absolute space and time from the universe, still clung to an absolute >> ontology. The centrist view presented here, which might be called >> _conceptual relativity_, fundamentally challenges the realist ontological >> assumptions underlying virtually all of Western science. Theory, in the >> form of conceptual designation permeates our experience. As theory is not >> purely determined by some intrinsic nature of reality, there is no one >> conceptual system that uniquely accounts for the myriad of natural >> phenomena. Objects exist relative to the theory-laden consciousness that >> experiences them. >> >> "From a centrists perspective, ontological absolutism is based on the >> mental distortion known as reification. Reification in science is quite >> similar to the same process in everyday life. This stands to reason, since >> scientific inquiry itself bears so much in common with ordinary mental >> activity. Einstein made the following distinction between the two: "The >> scientific way of forming concepts differs from that which we use in our >> daily life, not basically, but merely in the more precise definition of >> concepts and conclusions; more painstaking and systematic choice of >> experimental material; and greater logical economy". >> >> "The process of reification, as we have noted previously, forms the basis >> for everyday realism, and it is present even in young children. According to >> the child psychologist Jean Piaget, a child first constructs a concept >> related to the world and then projects it out into the world. The concept >> is externalized so that it appears to be a perceptually given object or >> property, independent of the subject's own mental activity. As we can see >> from our own experience, the phenomena that we perceive in the external >> world appear to exist independently of our perceptions and conceptions. >> Here is perhaps the most fundamental reason for believing in an objective >> universe independent of consciousness: that is simply how the world >> appears. But does the world in fact exist the way it appears, or is its >> mode of existence incongruous with its mode of appearance? >> >> "Everyday and scientific realism differ, however, in the types of things >> that are reified. Where as the former chiefly reifies objects and >> properties that appear to our senses, the latter reifies the existence of >> noumenal entities that lie behind appearances. Thus, subatomic particles, >> electromagnetic fields, and the zero-point energy of the vacuum are assumed >> to exist independently of the theories in which they are conceived. That >> is, they really exist "out there" in the objective world, independent of >> human existence. >> >> "The tendency of reification among mathematicians is particularly >> interesting. Philip Davis and Reuben Hersh comment in their book >> 'Descartes' Dream: The World According to Mathematics' that many modern >> mathematicians regard their discipline as a system of deductive structures >> in which deduction moves from axiom to conclusions, and the axioms are >> "simply playthings." This attitude suggests a formalists view of >> mathematics one the Davis and Hersh assert is generally instilled into >> today's students. Yet in a later chapter they claim that nearly all >> mathematicians hold Platonist conception of mathematics nearly all the >> time. This view asserts that mathematics exists independently of the world; >> it exists prior to and apart from the universe, and and it will go on even >> when the cosmos comes to an end. Thus, the world of mathematics exists >> independently of the mathematician, whose job is to discover and record what >> is already there. What is this telling us? It would seem th >> at most mathematicians, when they philosophize about mathematics, profess >> a formalist view, but the rest of the time (especially when they are >> actually doing mathematics) they revert to a realist stance. This may well >> be true of many scientists as well. The natural tendency of reification, >> which we have had since childhood, is extremely difficult to eradicate from >> our habits of thinking and perceiving." >> >> (Wallace, B. Alan, 'Choosing Reality : A Buddhist View of Physics and >> the Mind',2003,pp.120-123) >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
