Hi Horse,
On 29 Oct 2010 at 17:36, Horse wrote:
Hi Platt
If SOM didn't exist before Pirsig named it (as you assert is the case)
then how could DQ or SQ exist before the MoQ?
Platt
Logically, they couldn't. Intuitively they could -- illustrative of the
difference between thinking (SQ) and intuition (DQ).
Horse
The MoQ, DQ and SQ are introduced to the world in Lila which came out
around 1990.
SQ and DQ are part and parcel of the MoQ which didn't exist at the time
that Pirsig had his peyote experience - which was prior to him creating
ZMM or Lila.
If neither DQ/SQ or MoQ existed at this time then critical thinking, not
DQ or SQ, followed from the peyote experience and was part of the
process which led to the creation of the MoQ and the DQ/SQ split.
Platt
Yes, thinking (we can argue later about what is meant by critical thinking as
opposed to thinking) was "part of the process," as shown in my time line.
In fact, now that I think about it :-), thinking is a process of constant
interplay between DQ and SQ when words are first plucked out of thin air (DQ)
and then strung together to make sense (SQ) in sentences and paragraphs. Or, if
you prefer, logic and intuition constantly coacting to create patterns of
meaning.
Anyway, it's fun to think about thinking, then to think about thinking about
thinking, then to think about thinking about thinking about thinking . . ad
infinitum -- illustrating that thinking alone (including critical thinking)
leads to a black hole of nonsense. Something else is needed. DQ fills the bill.
On 29/10/2010 17:10, Platt Holden wrote:
> Hi Horse,
>
> I see the time line differently:
>
> peyote-breakdown of static intellectual patterns allowing DQ to break
> through to reveal a new pattern -> thinking to name and latch new pattern ->
> more responses to DQ -> more thinking and latching -> more responses to DQ,
> etc., etc. -> MoQ (DQ/SQ).
>
> Platt
>
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Horse<[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi Platt and Arlo
> >
> > To be picky about this and given Platt's previous assertion that SOM didn't
> > exist until Pirsig described it, the time-line should be something like:
> >
> > peyote-inspired revelation -> critical thinking -> MoQ -> DQ/SQ
> >
> > or something very similar. Neither MoQ nor DQ existed until after the
> > critical thinking stage!
> >
> > Horse
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