Hi All, I missed a lot of the discourse with Bo as I was on sabbatical from this forum. However I did review some of the posts during that time, not nearly all of them of course. I would have to agree with Horse here. If that makes me disagree with Bo, I don't know.
MOQ seems to be expressed in these posts as SOM, that is the typical way of conversing, as I understand the concept. This occurs because conversation is a subject talking to an object. While in conversation we use subjects and objects but MOQ rises from a deeper level which does not contain SOM, as well. Experience and all that, all of which are parts of the intellectual level, fully integrated. All these things come together along with some symbol manipulation to provide a personal world view to others. To make the intellectual level SOM would be to confine it to simple symbol manipulation and I don't think that is appropriate. SOM is just the final form prior to expressing it to others. Now, it could be said that it is language all the way down (digital/analogue processing), but it certainly is not SOM language. Sudden insight (which is intellectual) comes from a mix, of which experience is one part. While I am reading, I am not engaged in SOM, I am experiencing through it. There is no SOM in listening to Wagner, yet it provides insight. If Wagner is not intellectual, then he is a dilettante and not a creator. Just to be disagreeable, I will also say that the intellect is dynamic quality in action, not one step removed as W. James may have said. Don't know if this makes Bo wrong. He might even agree with this for all I know. In memory of Bo, Mark On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 8:07 AM, Horse <[email protected]> wrote: > But the MoQ isn't the Intellectual level. Nor is SOM. > So the Intellectual level can contain both. > Box A (the Intellectual Level) contains Box B (MoQ) and Box C (SOM) - and > Box D and E and F.............. > None of these boxes contain Quality but both MoQ and SOM as Intellectual > patterns of Value are contained within the larger box of the Intellectual > level. They are separate patterns. > So Bo's wrong. > > Horse > > (To be continued tomorrow - probably!) > > On 07/12/2010 15:48, Platt Holden wrote: >> >> Again Pirsig: >> >> "You can't have box 'A' (the MOQ) contain within itself box 'B' >> (intellectual level) which in turn contains box 'A.' (the MOQ). That's >> whacko. (Parens added.) >> >> Bo's SOL is right. >> >> (Under the rules this is my final post on the subject permitted today.) >> > > -- > > "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production > deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." > — Frank Zappa > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
