Mark, I disagree that _intellectual static patterns of value_ are other than subject-object oriented. But I'm sure I'm over my restricted two posts per day so I'll not say more...
Marsha On Dec 7, 2010, at 2:07 PM, 118 wrote: > Hi All, > > I missed a lot of the discourse with Bo as I was on sabbatical from > this forum. However I did review some of the posts during that time, > not nearly all of them of course. I would have to agree with Horse > here. If that makes me disagree with Bo, I don't know. > > MOQ seems to be expressed in these posts as SOM, that is the typical > way of conversing, as I understand the concept. This occurs because > conversation is a subject talking to an object. While in conversation > we use subjects and objects but MOQ rises from a deeper level which > does not contain SOM, as well. Experience and all that, all of which > are parts of the intellectual level, fully integrated. All these > things come together along with some symbol manipulation to provide a > personal world view to others. To make the intellectual level SOM > would be to confine it to simple symbol manipulation and I don't think > that is appropriate. SOM is just the final form prior to expressing > it to others. > > Now, it could be said that it is language all the way down > (digital/analogue processing), but it certainly is not SOM language. > Sudden insight (which is intellectual) comes from a mix, of which > experience is one part. While I am reading, I am not engaged in SOM, > I am experiencing through it. There is no SOM in listening to Wagner, > yet it provides insight. If Wagner is not intellectual, then he is a > dilettante and not a creator. > > Just to be disagreeable, I will also say that the intellect is dynamic > quality in action, not one step removed as W. James may have said. > > Don't know if this makes Bo wrong. He might even agree with this for > all I know. > > In memory of Bo, > Mark > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 8:07 AM, Horse <[email protected]> wrote: >> But the MoQ isn't the Intellectual level. Nor is SOM. >> So the Intellectual level can contain both. >> Box A (the Intellectual Level) contains Box B (MoQ) and Box C (SOM) - and >> Box D and E and F.............. >> None of these boxes contain Quality but both MoQ and SOM as Intellectual >> patterns of Value are contained within the larger box of the Intellectual >> level. They are separate patterns. >> So Bo's wrong. >> >> Horse >> >> (To be continued tomorrow - probably!) >> >> On 07/12/2010 15:48, Platt Holden wrote: >>> >>> Again Pirsig: >>> >>> "You can't have box 'A' (the MOQ) contain within itself box 'B' >>> (intellectual level) which in turn contains box 'A.' (the MOQ). That's >>> whacko. (Parens added.) >>> >>> Bo's SOL is right. >>> >>> (Under the rules this is my final post on the subject permitted today.) >>> >> >> -- >> >> "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production >> deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." >> — Frank Zappa >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
