Hi Marsha, On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 6:32 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > My interpretation of the Intellectual Level is based on reification. The > fourth level is comprised of static patterns of value such as theology, > mathematics, science and philosophy. The way that these patterns function is > as reified concepts and the rules for their rational analysis and > manipulation. Reification decontextualizes. Intellectual patterns process > from a subject/object conceptual framework creating false boundaries that > give the illusion of independence as a “thing” or an “object of analysis.” > The fourth level is a formalized subject/object level (SOM), where the > paramount demand is for rational, objective knowledge, which is free from the > taint of any subjectivity like emotions, inclinations, fears and compulsions > in order to pursue, study and research in an unbiased and rational manner. > > > > Marsha > > ___
Hi Marsha, I am coming in late on this thread, but I thought I would address your initial offering, above, concerning your interpretation of the Intellectual level. I certainly understand where you are coming from, but it seems to me that you are diminishing the Intellectual Level to a mechanistic premise. I think that Platt may have the same misgiving of such a level. As such, you are speaking of tools within the intellectual level, when you present the SOM analogy. An analogy that I can present of your predicament would be to use a fine-art painting. Certainly one can objectively classify a painting by the methodology used in its creation. It is possible to break it down into brush strokes. We could then state that the foundation of such a painting are the brush strokes. However, this would be incomplete in describing the painting, and certainly does not define the painting itself. Other aspects to be considered would be the juxtaposition of colors, the passion behind the brush-strokes, the type of paint used, and so forth. The same can be said concerning the Intellectual Level. One can break some of it down into procedural incarnates, such as the use of concepts (which represent an awareness), and the subsequent building or cross-connecting of such things to create greater awareness. However, such tools are not the Intellectual Level, but some of it's building blocks. It would be a disservice to apply rigorous standards of truth to the intellectual level. Such a level is a creation of Quality, which we keep building up. We cannot place such a thing into a set of provable rules, like geometry for example. Your comments to Horse, appear to be looking for a truth behind such a level. That is, a statement that comprises it. As the sophists well recognized, any such statement can be taken apart and turned on its head. This was clearly shown by Plato's interpretation of what he saw Socrates do. They used this technique to persuade. Such an act of persuasion, or rhetoric, was obviously more powerful than any kind of truth presented (just ask lawyers). Thus the battle between rhetoric, and the dialectic as presented in ZMM. Rhetoric is based on the quality of expression, it is an art. The dialectic was meant to arrive at a truth which Plato considered ultimate. It would seem to me, that your approach at understanding Quality is using inappropriate tools to do so. One cannot request truths that subject MoQ to analysis through a dialectic. It is a Western notion that is incompatible. The Noble Truths are not actual truths, they are stepping stones. They are noble only because they require nobleness. As such, Quality cannot be arrived at as a solution to some equation, it is arrived at by altering one's perspective. With the new perspective, one can then begin creating. All in my humble opinion, of course. Cheers, Mark > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
