Horse said:
... Horse the evil administrator is beating down the true forces of the
enlightened and the pioneering. ... You don't have an original idea in nearly
15 years and yet you badmouth the guys that go out and try and do something to
further Pirsigs work. .. When you do have something to say all you do is repeat
it ad nauseam and refuse to answer any questions that some of us have which may
throw a bit of light on what you're thinking. But apparently asking questions
of you is bad form and, anyway, there's no requirement to answer questions.
...You never ever rose to the challenge of supporting your beliefs by answering
questions or showing how what you had to say was better than what Pirsig had
proposed. Duck and cover, dodge those questions, find a mantra, repeat the
bullshit over and over. No substance, no point.
dmb says:
That's really what it's all about. Ironically, the most inflexible and
incorrigible participants respond to these complaints and criticisms by
portraying themselves as heroic misfits fighting "the man". Clearly, "misfit"
is self-serving and self-aggrandizing characterization is a distorted version
Pirsig's ideas about the role of the contrarian in cultural evolution.
I think there is nothing heroic about incorrigibility. In a place like this,
ignoring contrary evidence and evading questions is a very serious problem.
It's a violation of decency and fair-play. It's not honest. That kind of
behavior is the mark of very low intellectual quality. And yet that's exactly
what the so-called "misfits" do, some of them for ignoring and evading for many
years now. The problem seems to be plain, old-fashioned incompetence, not that
they have a "different" point of view. These misfits don't fit into a
philosophical discussion group because such a discussion can not function
without answering questions, saying what you mean and honestly facing up to the
relevant evidence. A conversation just can't work without these basic standards
of decency.
As I see it, the participants who conduct themselves this way, year after year,
really don't belong in a place like this regardless of the topic discussed.
They kind of behavior would spoil ANY kind of philosophical discussion and if
they ignored evidence and refused to answer questions in a court of law they'd
be cited for contempt or laughed out of the courtroom. I mean, in some contexts
it is literally against the law to do what they do here every day of the week.
As I see it, Horse's contention is that this behavior interferes with the main
purpose of this forum and I don't see how anyone can doubt that. On some days
there is nothing but noise and interference so that decent conversation is
completely shut out. This post - like almost every post lately - is about
nothing philosophical and it's not even interesting. It's just about dealing
with childish bullshit that should never exist in the first place. What a drag.
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