In the part i'v left out, i was referring to this. Plato/Aristotle
the messing up of the syntax,wright here.Even Plato and Aristotle messed up the syntaxis, making the words loose their meaning. Wiki Aristotle "says that 'on the subject of reasoning' he 'had nothing else on an earlier date to speak of'".[13]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle#cite_note-12>However, Plato reports that syntax <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syntax> was devised before him, by Prodicus of Ceos <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prodicus_of_Ceos>, who was concerned by the correct use of words. Logic seems to have emerged from dialectics<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectics>; the earlier philosophers made frequent use of concepts like *reductio ad absurdum <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum>* in their discussions, but never truly understood the logical implications. Even Plato had difficulties with logic; although he had a reasonable conception of a deducting system<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Deducting_system&action=edit&redlink=1>, he could never actually construct one and relied instead on his dialectic<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic> .[14]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle#cite_note-Boche.C5.84ski.2C_1951-13>Plato believed that deduction would simply follow from premises <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premise>, hence he focused on maintaining solid premises so that the conclusion<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_consequence>would logically follow. Consequently, Plato realized that a method for obtaining conclusions would be most beneficial. He never succeeded in devising such a method, but his best attempt was published in his book * Sophist <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophist_%28dialogue%29>*, where he introduced his division method.[15]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle#cite_note-14> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So i really am on top of the case here, and one of the keynotes here is to be found in The Phaedrus, if you like a lead. The syntax itself is the lead, we need the pure line. So , "we have the words, but that is all," is incorrect,we have the words,the synthesis and the syntax.This is the "informationexchange" written in in ZAM,here Greetings,(Marshmellow speaking) Here's a dangling RMP quote to study until you agree with me: "Men invent responses to Quality, and among these responses is an understanding of what they themselves are. You know something and then the Quality stimulus hits and then you try to define the Quality stimulus, but to define it all you've got to work with is what you know. So your definition is made up of what you know. It's an analogue to what you already know. It has to be. It can't be anything else. And the mythos grows this way. By analogies to what is known before. The mythos is a building of analogues upon analogues upon analogues. These fill the collective consciousness of all communicating mankind. Every last bit of it." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Every last bit of it, yes , Robert just wrote a correction on Plato himself, by importing all forms of informationexchange "communicating mankind" and in as such , by implication, concluded that the syntax is the secret of the words., loose the syntax, and everything becomes meaningless. Robert allowed the computerlanguages to be in harmony with what was written in The Phaedrus. 2011/3/29 MarshaV <[email protected]> > > > In a recent post Adrie was speaking of Aristotle and than switched to the > Pheadrus > without any mention of a new philosopher. I do are knowledge of Socrates > comes mainly from Plato with some mention by Aristophanes in The Clouds. > > Aristotle did not believe in written works. It is my understanding that > the > works we have were from his school, but not directly written by him. If I > remember correctly, the Nicomachean Ethics was written by his son. > > > > On Mar 29, 2011, at 11:21 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: > > > You must surely have confused Aristotle with Socrates in your original > > question Marsha ? > > > > Anything attributed to Socrates was written by Plato (and others) > > Aristotle was his own man (student of Plato) and wrote himself > > extensively (Poetics, Nicomachean Ethics, etc ...) - a lot more than > > "notes". > > > > Most of what we have from either (Plato or Aristotle) was preserved > > through the studies and writings (and translations into Arabic and > > then Latin) of Islamist scholars, but of course the (preserved) Greek > > originals have also been translated many times since - ask Pirsig > > about McKeon for example ;-) > > > > I wouldn't be surprised if there are translations from the original > > Greek in the languages of Hindu, Buddhist and other oriental cultures > > available if you look, but no doubt all the ones "we" read have come > > from the Abrahamic (Judaism, Christian, Islamic) and atheistic > > cultures. > > > > Now what was your question again ? > > Ian > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 3:23 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Adrie, > >> > >> There is a difference between ancient Greek and modern Greek. Is you > >> wife a philologist? Has Turkey a different religion than either > Islamic, > >> Jewish or Christian, because I understand all three to be considered of > the > >> Abrahamic traditions? The Pheadrus that I've read was written by > Plato. > >> What version of the Pheadrus by Aristotle are you referencing? > >> > >> > >> Marsha > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mar 29, 2011, at 9:21 AM, ADRIE KINTZIGER wrote: > >> > >>> Actually, my wife is Turkish, capable of reading Greec, and because of > her > >>> being Islamic,she is not really owning an Abrahamic filter. > >>> > >>> But the rest is correct, Aristotle left nothing behind,The Phaedrus was > >>> never > >>> written down,and Socrates was actually a clown. > >>> Pirsig never wrote a book,he was just sailing all the time,inventing > >>> monisms. > >>> > >>> If you go on like this , Marsha, i will loose my respect for you. > >>> > >>> > >>> 2011/3/29 MarshaV <[email protected]> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> It is my understanding that we have no written works composed by > Aristotle. > >>>> We do have notes of his lectures composed by others. In addition, > even if > >>>> you were a philologist and could read these original notes in the > ancient > >>>> Greek language, I doubt that the connotations associated with these > works > >>>> having been for centuries filtered through the Abrahamic traditions > could be > >>>> removed from your consciousness. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ___ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> > >> > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >> Archives: > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > >> > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > -- parser Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
