Adrie, This is not worth my effort. Explain it or don't.
Marsha n Mar 29, 2011, at 12:48 PM, ADRIE KINTZIGER wrote: > In the part i'v left out, i was referring to this. > > Plato/Aristotle > > the messing up of the syntax,wright here.Even Plato and Aristotle messed up > the syntaxis, making the words loose their meaning. > > Wiki > > Aristotle "says that 'on the subject of reasoning' he 'had nothing else on > an earlier date to speak > of'".[13]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle#cite_note-12>However, > Plato reports that > syntax <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syntax> was devised before him, > by Prodicus > of Ceos <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prodicus_of_Ceos>, who was concerned > by the correct use of words. Logic seems to have emerged from > dialectics<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectics>; > the earlier philosophers made frequent use of concepts like *reductio ad > absurdum <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum>* in their > discussions, but never truly understood the logical implications. Even Plato > had difficulties with logic; although he had a reasonable conception > of a deducting > system<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Deducting_system&action=edit&redlink=1>, > he could never actually construct one and relied instead on his > dialectic<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic> > .[14]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle#cite_note-Boche.C5.84ski.2C_1951-13>Plato > believed that deduction would simply follow from > premises <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premise>, hence he focused on > maintaining solid premises so that the > conclusion<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_consequence>would > logically follow. Consequently, Plato realized that a method for > obtaining conclusions would be most beneficial. He never succeeded in > devising such a method, but his best attempt was published in his book * > Sophist <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophist_%28dialogue%29>*, where he > introduced his division > method.[15]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle#cite_note-14> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > So i really am on top of the case here, and one of the keynotes here > is to be found in The Phaedrus, if you like a lead. > The syntax itself is the lead, we need the pure line. > > So , "we have the words, but that is all," is incorrect,we have the > words,the synthesis and the syntax.This is the "informationexchange" written > in in > ZAM,here > > Greetings,(Marshmellow speaking) > > Here's a dangling RMP quote to study until you agree with me: > > "Men invent responses to Quality, and among these responses is an > understanding of what they themselves are. You know something and then the > Quality stimulus hits and then you try to define the Quality stimulus, but > to define it all you've got to work with is what you know. So your > definition is made up of what you know. It's an analogue to what you already > know. It has to be. It can't be anything else. And the mythos grows this > way. By analogies to what is known before. The mythos is a building of > analogues upon analogues upon analogues. These fill the collective > consciousness of all communicating mankind. Every last bit of it." > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Every last bit of it, yes , Robert just wrote a correction on Plato himself, > by importing all forms of informationexchange "communicating mankind" > and in as such , by implication, concluded that the syntax is the secret of > the words., loose the syntax, and everything becomes meaningless. > > Robert allowed the computerlanguages to be in harmony with what was written > in The Phaedrus. > > > > > > 2011/3/29 MarshaV <[email protected]> > >> >> >> In a recent post Adrie was speaking of Aristotle and than switched to the >> Pheadrus >> without any mention of a new philosopher. I do are knowledge of Socrates >> comes mainly from Plato with some mention by Aristophanes in The Clouds. >> >> Aristotle did not believe in written works. It is my understanding that >> the >> works we have were from his school, but not directly written by him. If I >> remember correctly, the Nicomachean Ethics was written by his son. >> >> >> >> On Mar 29, 2011, at 11:21 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: >> >>> You must surely have confused Aristotle with Socrates in your original >>> question Marsha ? >>> >>> Anything attributed to Socrates was written by Plato (and others) >>> Aristotle was his own man (student of Plato) and wrote himself >>> extensively (Poetics, Nicomachean Ethics, etc ...) - a lot more than >>> "notes". >>> >>> Most of what we have from either (Plato or Aristotle) was preserved >>> through the studies and writings (and translations into Arabic and >>> then Latin) of Islamist scholars, but of course the (preserved) Greek >>> originals have also been translated many times since - ask Pirsig >>> about McKeon for example ;-) >>> >>> I wouldn't be surprised if there are translations from the original >>> Greek in the languages of Hindu, Buddhist and other oriental cultures >>> available if you look, but no doubt all the ones "we" read have come >>> from the Abrahamic (Judaism, Christian, Islamic) and atheistic >>> cultures. >>> >>> Now what was your question again ? >>> Ian >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 3:23 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Adrie, >>>> >>>> There is a difference between ancient Greek and modern Greek. Is you >>>> wife a philologist? Has Turkey a different religion than either >> Islamic, >>>> Jewish or Christian, because I understand all three to be considered of >> the >>>> Abrahamic traditions? The Pheadrus that I've read was written by >> Plato. >>>> What version of the Pheadrus by Aristotle are you referencing? >>>> >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 29, 2011, at 9:21 AM, ADRIE KINTZIGER wrote: >>>> >>>>> Actually, my wife is Turkish, capable of reading Greec, and because of >> her >>>>> being Islamic,she is not really owning an Abrahamic filter. >>>>> >>>>> But the rest is correct, Aristotle left nothing behind,The Phaedrus was >>>>> never >>>>> written down,and Socrates was actually a clown. >>>>> Pirsig never wrote a book,he was just sailing all the time,inventing >>>>> monisms. >>>>> >>>>> If you go on like this , Marsha, i will loose my respect for you. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2011/3/29 MarshaV <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It is my understanding that we have no written works composed by >> Aristotle. >>>>>> We do have notes of his lectures composed by others. In addition, >> even if >>>>>> you were a philologist and could read these original notes in the >> ancient >>>>>> Greek language, I doubt that the connotations associated with these >> works >>>>>> having been for centuries filtered through the Abrahamic traditions >> could be >>>>>> removed from your consciousness. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > > > > -- > parser > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
