Hi Mark The post this morning was just the start of a longer responses that I sent by accident. I've been slowly working on a fuller response but it's not complete. May never be... >>> Do I sense a hint of sarcasm here? >> Moi? shirley you jest. >>> Perhaps disdain for the spiritual? >>> If we follow the path that Pirsig discusses starting with Plato, this >>> is where we end up. Welcome to the 21st Century in Western >>> civilization. >> I believe that is one of his more recent interviews or commentaries Pirsig >> noted that their is no place in the MoQ for "spirit" or "faith" >> > [Mark] > If that is true,... [Dave] My "faith" that Pirsig made this comment maybe misplaced but I recall seeing it somewhere and "believe" he actually did say something very close to this and he meant it ! There is of course some probability, however tiny, that I am actually a "brain in a vat" but for sake of argument let say he did say and mean it. You then go on: > [Mark] >then what is Quality? As something that cannot be > defined, how are we to approach it? Certainly logic cannot play a > part. We must be faithless in our endeavor, [Dave] Ah, you're starting to get the drift.... > [Mark] >yet you point to Pirsig's words with faith of your own. Don't you see the incogruity of what you are saying?
> Is MoQ somehow real without people believing it is? > > Are you ascribing to some kind of Truth with Quality? > > I would have to say that I find your statements somewhat unbelievable. > Yet, it stands to reason (I guess) that I cannot have faith in what > you write; the spirit of your post is nonexistent, just words on > paper, nothing more behind that. Or is there something behind these > words of yours? Are you actually somebody who has spirit? [Dave] Bingo. Under the framework of the MoQ how does all of the above work? Don't ask me I don't have a clue. I've been laboring under the illusion for over 60 years that the world was sufficient understandable and amenable to the normal workings of our mind/bodies for humans to live and flourish in it. Over 30 years ago I found out that according to Pirsig that, at least in the Western world, this is not so. Since then from time to time I have tried to figure out what he was going on about. Several times I thought I had a glimmer. His rhetoric is appealing but in the end everything is based on the "authority" of his "mystic" experience. Faith and spirit not required, and all logic,reason,rationality and the like are all trumped by the mystic force of Dynamic Quality. Which at any given point in time is anything you, me, or anybody else might like. Given what Hitler and Mao did with pragmatism they must literally rolling over and green with envy at being too late to work their magic with this one. > Pirsig does not want MoQ to be confused with a dogmatic religion, > fine, I agree with that. Most, however, who say this have no > experience with religion beyond that which they disdain as not > scientific enough. Yet, MoQ is not scientific, it is a rhetorical > projection of the world (and Grand at that). How can the MoQ be considered anything other than "a dogmatic religion" in the making.? It has almost all the necessary elements. "Sacred" text, small but fanatic following, a central figure who presents himself as a modern day Buddha abet as you suggest much grander and less humble than the storied one of 2500 years ago. If you think hard I'm sure you can find some more. > > Let's get a little deeper than quotes from Pirsig shall we? Let's not and say we did. Whoops that won't work it would seem like I was exercising my free will. Down DQ, down! Dave >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
