Greetings Andre, On Apr 29, 2011, at 5:56 PM, Andre Broersen wrote:
> Marsha to Andre: > > Didn't get that sudden enlightenment (awakening) was being considered. ?Those > of this persuasion would say nothing needs to be done about anything. ?Maybe > this is closer to what Dan is stating when he says that Dynamic Quality > doesn't require getting this perfect or mastering that, but that Dynamic > Quality is always right here. ?That's how I interpreted Dan, but I could be > wrong. > > Andre: > No, I think you are right as far as Dan's intentions were concerned but I > still maintain the point I was trying to make. The 'path to DQ' as you put > it, is traveled along different ways. The biological path is different to the > social path which is again different from the intellectual path which again > is different to the 'spiritual' path. > > I mean, the cricket player in my example, and Dan's example of baseball > players...are they after the mystical expression of DQ? I doubt it very much. > They are after the highest attainable social/biological expression within > their field of artistry: fitness,health,physical prowess which then follows > celebrity, fame, fortune and glory.( some of these 'artists' have it the > wrong way around of course and will not amount to much very quickly). > > The intellectual path may be the attainment of much knowledge and...perhaps > resulting in a form of wisdom....intellectual wisdom, erudition maybe, and > perhaps reflected in social recognition through expressions of fame, fortune > and glory. > > But what I like about Pirsig's MOQ is that it clarifies and makes > understandable where this pursuit of DQ is expressed. As Pirsig expresses > it:" Celebrity is to social patterns as sex is to biological patterns". > (LILA, p 260) > > Wonderful, as an "organizing force" ( Pirsig,ibid) great...but what is one > after? Pursuing the mystical path (in so far as this can be called pursuing) > can, by a stroke, as you suggest Marsha, be attained immediately, but the > vast majority face an arduous, difficult and highly disciplined path....and > as I suggested not only in the pursuit of mystical 'excellence'. Marsha: Read somewhere that a teacher will make awakening as difficult as expected by the student. There is no need to face an arduous, difficult path. - Wasn't it that wise woman, Lila, that said something to the effect that reality is what you think it to be. Well, if you believe such experiences are difficult or impossible, they will be. And your statement reinforces that pattern. Many people thinking it to be too difficult, will never consider trying. > Andre: > Hi, hi, talking about the implications of following this one regarding > freewill...!!! Pirsig was spot on: > sustain the biological and social patterns (you'll have a damn difficult time > if you don't) and kill the intellectual patterns....follow DQ and morality > will be served. > > Just on a side note I was interested in how this poem was translated into > Dutch and am still intrigued as to its translation: 'sustain' is not simply > the keeping them going but translated as 'suffering' them (as in 'putting up' > with them)...an 'undergoing' them. > > Does this make sense? Marsha: Just goes to show you how differently concepts can be interpreted. I don't experience most biological or social patterns as suffering. Do you think biological and social patterns are to be suffered? ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
