[Mark] My point was that there are other ways to see Freedom apart from you static Western representation of such.
[Arlo] The desperate response of "you're static". Been expecting that. Theories of agency/structure derive more from Russian thought than Euro-American histories. FYI. [Mark] This is quite true, which relegates static quality to the Social Level, and not to the personal or biological level. [Arlo] This makes no sense. Static quality is defined as I/B/S/I patterns of value. [Mark] You are mixing up your levels when you speak of freedom. [Arlo] I don't think of "levels" at all when I speak of "freedom", you either don't read or don't understand what I write. Whether this is deliberate or not, I can only guess. Given that its a continual problem with you, I'm leaning towards deliberate. [Mark] I suppose you consider a non-feral human to be something different than what we are as human. [Arlo] I'd consider that it shares similar biological structures (patterns), and hence abilities derived exclusively from biology (ability to sense heat, to smell scents, to run, to jump, to recoil in fear at loud noises, to salivate, etc.) but apart from that there would no further similarity. What "we are as human" is not defined, exclusively, by our biology, but by our social and intellectual makeup as well. [Mark] Please try not to mix up your levels. [Arlo] An empty accusation, but I see what you are trying to accomplish with such nonsense. [Mark] Yes, we can dismiss them with a blink of an eye. [Arlo] On your way home tonight, dismiss the "roads" with a blink of you eye, tell me if you agency in movement and travel does not decrease as a result. [Mark] It would all depend on the intrusion of the government (Social Level) on our personal (biological) level. [Arlo] This makes no sense. I am sorry, though, that your "personal level" is biological. Some of us are much more than that. [Mark] Governing is a Social aspect, not to be confused with individual freedom. [Arlo] Individual freedoms increase as a result of social regulations on behavior. People in governed societies enjoy far more freedoms than people living in anarchy. This is not to say that all restrictions are good, or that there is a not where too much interference diminishes human agency. The key is finding the balance where you are more free than states of anarchy or states of despotism would put you. Well, I've read Archer/Giddens/Parker/Bourdieu and I thought the majority of information on Wikipedia regarding their theories was accurate enough to give you place to start. Forget it then, if you are interested pick up these authors' books and start there. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
