Hi dmb,

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 4:16 PM, david buchanan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Steve said to Dan:
>
> ...The exact quote I was referencing is “To the extent that one’s behavior is 
> controlled by static patterns of quality it is without choice.  But to the 
> extent that one follows Dynamic Quality, which is undefinable, one’s behavior 
> is free.” dmb takes this to mean that WE have "free will" to the extent we 
> follow DQ and are determined to the extent that WE are controlled by static 
> patterns. ... I do notice in RMPs reformulation of the issue the notion of 
> "we" as well as "the will" is conspicuously absent. dmb sees these notions as 
> implied.  ...Instead of arguing whether or not Pirsig's statement is a middle 
> ground between free will and determinism [dmb] or better viewed as a 
> rejection of both horns of the traditional SOM free will/determinism dilemma 
> in favor of a whole new reformulation of the question of freedom [steve], we 
> might move forward toward discussing Pirsig's reformulation itself. Pirsig 
> says, “To the extent that one’s behavior is controlled by static patterns of 
> quality it is without choice.  But to the extent that one follows Dynamic 
> Quality, which is undefinable, one’s behavior is free.” So our behavior is 
> free to some extent and not free to some extent.
>
>
>
> dmb says:
> As far as I can tell, you're the only one who is NOT talking about Pirsig's 
> reformulation. You keep pretending that I'm not talking about freedom and 
> constraint within the terms of Pirsig's reformulation no matter how many 
> times I tell you otherwise. My claims have nothing to do with the claims of 
> the straw man you've invented. As a result, you are arguing with nobody about 
> nothing. One can only wonder why, I suppose, but I'd guess that it's a 
> desperation move aimed at avoiding the actual claims.

Steve:
Instead of shifting to the "straw man" defense, why not just say that
you now understand and agree with what I have been saying all
along--that the MOQ denies both horns of the traditional free
will/determinism debate by denying the fundamental premise upon which
it rests? That would be the honest and honorable thing to do here.

Best,
Steve
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