On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 4:16 PM, david buchanan <[email protected]> wrote: > > Steve said to Dan: > > ...The exact quote I was referencing is “To the extent that one’s behavior is > controlled by static patterns of quality it is without choice. But to the > extent that one follows Dynamic Quality, which is undefinable, one’s behavior > is free.” dmb takes this to mean that WE have "free will" to the extent we > follow DQ and are determined to the extent that WE are controlled by static > patterns. ... I do notice in RMPs reformulation of the issue the notion of > "we" as well as "the will" is conspicuously absent. dmb sees these notions as > implied. ...Instead of arguing whether or not Pirsig's statement is a middle > ground between free will and determinism [dmb] or better viewed as a > rejection of both horns of the traditional SOM free will/determinism dilemma > in favor of a whole new reformulation of the question of freedom [steve], we > might move forward toward discussing Pirsig's reformulation itself. Pirsig > says, “To the extent that one’s behavior is controlled by static patterns of > quality it is without choice. But to the extent that one follows Dynamic > Quality, which is undefinable, one’s behavior is free.” So our behavior is > free to some extent and not free to some extent. > > > > dmb says: > As far as I can tell, you're the only one who is NOT talking about Pirsig's > reformulation. You keep pretending that I'm not talking about freedom and > constraint within the terms of Pirsig's reformulation no matter how many > times I tell you otherwise.
Steve: (I'm not pretending anything.) We agree that in the MOQ our behavior is free to some extent and not free to some extent, but what does this mean? If reality is Quality, then I wonder "Free from what? Controlled by what?" I think Pirsig's reformulation cashes out to, as Matt said months ago, "when you be static, you be static. When you be dynamic, you be dynamic!" It doesn't tell us how to tell the difference and give us a basis for culpability and praiseworthiness in the sense you have been punching up (nor obviously as the term "free will" is generally used in legal philosophy to distinguish between defendants who ought to be punished and those who are innocent of their bad deeds). Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
