Steve rep lied to dmb:
...What the hell are you talking about? I just said (as I have been saying all
along) it is reasonable to think of the MOQ as supporting free will "depending
on how far you are willing to go in re-describing free will in order to be able
to lend MOQ support to it (i.e. as DQ/sq)."
dmb says:
Again, no, that is exactly NOT what you have been saying all along and there is
no shortage of evidence for this in the record. I found some in the first place
I looked....
Horse said: So we're kind of back to the idea that 'Free Will' is an illusion!
Steve responded: Yes, I have tried to make clear that the free
will/determinism debate depends entirely on premises that the MOQ denies. The
MOQ denies free will as well as determinism in favor of a continuum of reliable
to unpredictable preferences. Determinism is false in the MOQ because
determinism leaves no place for values. Free will is also false since though
everything is preference (or value), it is meaningless to assert that
preference is free. What could a person's preference be free of when all that a
person is is a set of preferences? This freedom to which the traditional notion
of free will refers is the freedom of an independent agent that the MOQ calls a
fiction.
dmb resumes:
See, that is your often repeated claim and that's _defeated_ by Pirsig's LC
annotation. Here's another example where you make the claim quite neatly. Just
a couple of weeks ago you said...
Steve: For Pirsig, freedom is associated with following dynamic quality. His
hot stove analogy gives us one paradigmatic example of what it is like to
follow DQ which is in no way what anyone means by free will.
dmb says:
Now you are claiming that you've always said, "that DESPITE the traditional
definition of freewill the MOQ can argue against it in favor of a different
view of free will"!?! Doesn't this PROVE that your pants are on fire? Like I
said, I'd bet you said this three dozen times and there's no shortage of
evidence as to what you're been saying all along. Why are you not embarrassed
to make a claim that can so easily be exposed as a lie? Seriously, how can you
be so shameless? I honestly don't get that.
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