Hi Dan, On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 2:16 PM, david buchanan <[email protected]> wrote: > > Dan quoted SEP: > "James made no concerted attempt to show or prove that the principle of > pragmatism was correct. In his lectures, he put it into practice, solving > problems about squirrels, telling us the meaning of truth, explaining how we > can understand propositions about human freedom or about religious matters. > But in the end, inspired by these applications, we are encouraged to adopt > the maxim and see how well things work out when we do so." > > Dan commented on the quote: > This is what I see you [Dave, but probably Matt, too] doing by sweeping away > such questions as: is there a sound when a forest with no one around and does > Don's dog dish exist when he walks out of the room. You're in effect telling > us (like James) that high quality intellectual patterns work well in the real > world so we should forget about questioning them. We should just take them > for granted. I don't like that, though. That doesn't seem like philosophy to > me... it seems more like giving in... ...I thought the quote might help shed > light on my reasoning. > Since I lost track of the dog dish conversation, I do not know if what I present below is exactly relevant. But here I go.
If a tree falls in the forest... is there a sound? Sound is produced when a disturbance hits our eardrums and it is converted to a firing of nerves within the brain so that we can make sense of it. We do not hear sounds, we create sounds from that interaction. A sound doesn't exist outside of what we create in our heads. So to answer that question I would first ask: is there anything around that will convert that air disturbance into sound? If there is not, then it is impossible for there to be sound; sound requires two components us and the disturbance. If one is missing there is not sound. In the same way, we do not hear music. It is not music until we decipher it. This is the act of creating. It is this projection of our creations into the outside world that creates the subject/object. While this is not a bad thing, it is way overdone. The dog dish... Once again, we create the "dog dish" with the back of our brains, the visual cortex (which actually exists in the dark). We do not "see" dog dishes, we create dog dishes with our ability to form an image. A "dog dish" does not exist as such without our ability to create an impression of it. (If one is blind then other senses are used). The reason we create it is to provide us with meaning. So, does a dog dish exist when we leave the room? We can ask does a dog dish persists in our memories, and we can say yes. But absent of memory, the dog dish only exists when we are creating it from the light which enters our eyes and is then transduced. Perhaps a better question would be: what would our experience be like if we had no memory? If the object gains a life of its own, it becomes a truth and much quality is lost. A dog dish (image) requires two components, the "dog dish" and our ability to discern it. In terms of your quote, it is hard to imagine the context. However, if what the author of the quote says is indeed an accepted notion of James, I would say this: What could be more significant than to find than if one adopts a maxim that it brings great meaning? The proof is in the pudding, not in some written word. When one expresses Arete, it is much more powerful than if one reads about it. All logic to the contrary of a position is meaningless if one intuitively feels such position. One can tell me how good grapefruit is until the cows come home, but I still do not like grapefruit. However, it is important to continually question, otherwise we become part of some "feel good" cult. So, indeed, question things if they do not seem right, or if they go against some inner perspective. Question them until you resolve the issue so that it is meaningful for you. Certainly do not take someone else's word for it. Does what James says resonate with you? If not, then why not? If it seems wrong, then what makes it wrong? Cheers, Mark > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
